Phero advice, newbie putting all her cards on the table

[Cycle Kitten]

I originally found LP because my mom is dating again after a messy divorce and pheros were intriguing to me. Thanks to google and LPMP I'm now a bit obsessed with researching pheros in general and could use a little help/ advice for myself. Here it goes, all out.

 

My hubby and I are over 40, 20 incredible years together and I have a boyfriend in his 50's. We are all friends, everything is honest and open, no secrets. I never dreamed I would be in a poly relationship but after 4 years of the worst sexual tension imaginable between the now BF and I the three of us took the plunge into what has been our relationship of three years. Generally speaking everything is great.

 

The trouble is the BF suffers from anxiety and depression,being witness to the bad days can tear my heart out. He is also the only one that struggles with the social fears of acceptance in regards to our relationship.

He has a bit of baggage from the ex wife, and some abandonment issues. Sometimes he subconsciously tries to push me away. I'm sure that some of that comes from having very traditional upbringing and views about relationships and an internal struggle with being the "third". None of us ever planned or imagined this would happen. When his depression gets the best of him he makes comments about how I'm going to go away too. He is a drear friend to my hubby and I love him very much, although there are no certainties in relationships, I don't see myself going anywhere, away from him, unless he decides to leave.

What started out as friendship and the most animalistic, primal attraction I have ever experienced has turned into a very compassionate and loving relationship. My husband and I were both raised with good ol traditional values but as adults we have learned that love doesn't necessarily follow rules.

 

The advice part: I would welcome any thoughts on what pheros I could wear that may help ease his anxiety without losing the sexual spark that exists between us. This is a very sincere request and I would appreciate casting personal judgements aside.

[belle-ville]

I'm not too sure about whether it would effect any sexual spark, but balm bomb is so deliciously calming and comforting. I'm also not sure if its a unisex blend but its supposed to affect others.

 

I also love heart & soul, which makes my BF very cuddly and makes me lovey-dovey... but I'm not sure it's enough to make him forget about his troubles.

 

Maybe some of the more senior members would be better suited to help, I'm still very very much of a noob myself. Also, its interesting, it seems like everyone reacts differently to the pheros, both the person wearing and the person being exposed to it. For example, I've been wearing lumina for the past two days and I've been super floaty/absent-minded but in a very pleasant way. Kinda like pepe le peu when he followed the scent of the female skunk. Haha! Also evidently the special in november is trials of unscented pheros. I'm looking forward to it as a chance to try lots of pheros without committing to full bottles. Anyways, what I'm saying is...

 

TL;DR: sorry I'm not much help, surely the more senior members would be able to help better, but also remember that everyone reacts a little differently to pheros

Welcome and good luck!

P.S. I think you and your husband's mutual understanding and ability to maintain the three-way relationship is very impressive.

[quietguy]

I cannot say for you but for him I would perhaps recommend Charisma or SS4M for the psychological/self-confidence lift he might get from seeing the pheros at work around him in general.

[cheeseburger79]

I would second the Balm Bomb, and also suggest that you look into Mara's Spell Oils too. I am no expert either, but i wanted to say WELCOME to our forum!

Also, not trying to sound condescending, but if he's talking suicidal stuff..is he in therapy? Pheromones and scent therapy can only do so much. I'm saying this as someone who is in therapy myself, so I hope you don't think I'm trying to belittle him. It just sounds like he could use a professional to help sort out some of his issues.

[Rose Blackthorn]

Hi Cycle Kitten. I suffer from extreme clinical anxiety. I have used Balm Bomb with success if I hit it *before* the anxiety levels become too intense. I can not attest to how it works for men however. B 2 is a heavier hitter. I am feeling some of the concern that Cheeseburger has expressed. When it comes to depression, one can never be sure how much another person is suffering , no matter how close you are to them. Could it be that it's time to sit down and try to speak openly with him about your concerns? Is your husband aware of your BF's anxiety/depression issues? If you were to decide to approach the subject, do you feel that he would be more receptive to opening up if it were just the two of you talking, or would it maybe put him more at ease to have your husband present as well? I think if I were in your position, these are things I would be asking myself. I pass no judgement at all on people who have found happiness in polyamorous relationships. I think what is concerning me, is the strict, old fashioned upbringing that you mentioned in that perhaps it is he who is carrying around some sort of guilt and judging himself. I think for many people, some of whom I am close friends with, polyamory can work quite well when all people involved are completely comfortable with the lifestyle and feel secure. It's only my opinion, but I think I would try approaching the situation by talking openly before taking the phero route. Of course, it could perhaps assist in dealing with having "the talk." For that, I am thinking maybe, Open Windows, Empathy Potion, and if anyone can suggest a calming phero that could be helpful to both genders, I would think you might do well to consider those as well. I'm sorry. It's very painful when someone you love is suffering and of course you will end up feeling it as well. I really wish all of you luck with this. I hope you will post updates.

[cutie.pie]

This is a very sincere request and I would appreciate casting personal judgements aside.

 

I'm pretty sure no one here will judge you! That's the reason i love this community so much.

 

My first thought after reading your post is that you should give Open Windows a try. Also, you do not have to wear pheros, you can buy Mara's phero enhanced wax melts, you can buy them here: https://www.etsy.com/shop/LovePotionPerfumes?section_id=16172914&ref=shopsection_leftnav_7

[belle-ville]

Hi Cycle Kitten. I suffer from extreme clinical anxiety. I have used Balm Bomb with success if I hit it *before* the anxiety levels become too intense. I can not attest to how it works for men however. B 2 is a heavier hitter. I am feeling some of the concern that Cheeseburger has expressed. When it comes to depression, one can never be sure how much another person is suffering , no matter how close you are to them. Could it be that it's time to sit down and try to speak openly with him about your concerns? Is your husband aware of your BF's anxiety/depression issues? If you were to decide to approach the subject, do you feel that he would be more receptive to opening up if it were just the two of you talking, or would it maybe put him more at ease to have your husband present as well? I think if I were in your position, these are things I would be asking myself. I pass no judgement at all on people who have found happiness in polyamorous relationships. I think what is concerning me, is the strict, old fashioned upbringing that you mentioned in that perhaps it is he who is carrying around some sort of guilt and judging himself. I think for many people, some of whom I am close friends with, polyamory can work quite well when all people involved are completely comfortable with the lifestyle and feel secure. It's only my opinion, but I think I would try approaching the situation by talking openly before taking the phero route. Of course, it could perhaps assist in dealing with having "the talk." For that, I am thinking maybe, Open Windows, Empathy Potion, and if anyone can suggest a calming phero that could be helpful to both genders, I would think you might do well to consider those as well. I'm sorry. It's very painful when someone you love is suffering and of course you will end up feeling it as well. I really wish all of you luck with this. I hope you will post updates.

Rose, your comments are always so... complete! And thoughtful and sensitive. Life goals. Haha! Too bad I'm too brash for it.

 

I third the therapy comment. Screw the stigmas! It helps and even if he is not suicidal, it sounds like he might benefit from therapy, or maybe couples therapy or something would help. Shit, I want to go to therapy too! Haha!

[halo0073]

Guys Androstadienone only works this way on women. In men it can actually cause depression so if you are going to test it around your boyfriend please do so carefully.

[belle-ville]

*edited to remove accidental double post*

Edited September 14, 2015 by belle-ville

[Beccah]

Cycle-kitten.... oh, I'm judging! Only because you've got two plates on the table, & I'm starving over here

Seriously, though. I think Balm Bomb is great, plus I've had sexual reactions to these types of blends in the past. I think feeling relaxed is very conducive to an enjoyable love life.

[Cycle Kitten]

Thank you all so much for responding. Being an extreme empath the situation is also really painful for me. No one wants to see someone they love suffer. The boys don't sit down and have heart to hearts, they do more of the manly, play with motors stuff together. My husband is a very sincere sensitive guy that's willing to help in any way he can.

 

I'm a very communicative person and talk with the BF often but he has a limited window for talking about his depression. He has suffered for a long time and is not one to seek medical attention, for anything, unless absolutely necessary. Advil has been the only medication I have ever known him to take though I recently convinced him to take some stress formula vitamins and St. John's wort. I'm hoping there is some benefit in the not too distant future. He's not suicidal but when things are bad it's hard for him to find joy in anything. It's been 14 yrs but the ex has done some serious damage to his self worth and he is a very harsh critic of himself. I've never dealt so personally with someone suffering from more than mild, occasional depression. I know that there is little you can do but be supportive, that trying to "help" can sometimes backfire.

 

I am a very love oriented being, very affectionate and nurturing, compassionate almost to a fault. ( leaving the sexual aspect to the side for this but I also have a very large appetite physically, I've seen the white flag of surrender from them simultaneously ) I'm not pushy, and take whatever feels right at the time as far as intimacy goes, but they are both aware that I'm always "up" so to speak. With the BF, the depression can cause some serious dry spells. He comments often that he has never known anyone like me, but he is referring to both the physical and non physical love. He says he's learning with me, I don't think true affection/ love is something he has ever had. The ex had an agenda, career, house, 2.5 kids....when he didn't fit the mold she cast him aside.

 

Though he has never said so plainly, I do believe that he would be more comfortable in a truly loving traditional relationship, I can see the internal struggle with me being married. You won't find two more reasonable and caring people than myself and my husband. The BF knows he is a welcome member of our household, he just can't seem to process it. Even though I know it will break my heart, I've made it very clear to the BF that all I want for him is to have happiness, even if that means he finds it with someone else.

 

I'm not looking for a phero miracle, I'm level headed, I know that ultimately it's up to him to help himself. But if a little magic and chemistry could aid him in being a little more at ease, less stressed out, I'm willing to try. Most of the time I have him laughing and playing, something no one else ever sees in him. But when the storm hits the seas are rough.

 

I have A bottle of OW on the way, thanks to the forum and everyone's posts I though it would be a good choice. I will admit that I've worn Horny with success during a dry spell or two but I'm really more concerned with his general well being than the physical.

 

I like the idea of the wax melts, I actually make soy candles, I always make sure the BF is stocked when we are apart since he likes them. Wonder if I could simply add some mood elevating pheros to his candles when I pour them.

[Cycle Kitten]

Guys Androstadienone only works this way on women. In men it can actually cause depression so if you are going to test it around your boyfriend please do so carefully.

Halo, thanks for pointing that out, if it's not too much trouble, could you tell me which blends contain it?

My eyes hurt from sifting through the amount of info on here, I wouldn't want to risk making him feel worse, even for a moment.

Thanks

Cycle-kitten.... oh, I'm judging! Only because you've got two plates on the table, & I'm starving over here

Seriously, though. I think Balm Bomb is great, plus I've had sexual reactions to these types of blends in the past. I think feeling relaxed is very conducive to an enjoyable love life.

awwww, I admit I'm spoiled, especially when we are all together, and thankful the nearest neighbor is 1/4 mile. It's clearly not all screaming and fun though. Hope you get a meal soon

[cutie.pie]

I like the idea of the wax melts, I actually make soy candles, I always make sure the BF is stocked when we are apart since he likes them. Wonder if I could simply add some mood elevating pheros to his candles when I pour them.

I know you can add pheros to non phero'd was melts, but I don't think you can add it to the candles. This is from etsy site, quote from Mara:

 

"Another added benefit to using wax melts, is that UNLIKE candles, we CAN add pheromones to them. I recently found out that a lot of people are unaware of the fact that pheromones will produce a toxic gas upon touching flame, which makes pheromone candles unsafe. However, there is no such risk with wax melts, as they never touch flame, the wax is simply warmed and melted, and thus diffused, and that is completely safe. "

[halo0073]

You want to avoid the blends that are calming to women, namely B2.2, Balm Bomb, Teddy BB. Those have the highest amount. But it's in other blends as well including Perfect Match, LFM and LFN. Check the ingredients to be sure. It's also referred to as A1 for short.

[Cycle Kitten]

I know you can add pheros to non phero'd was melts, but I don't think you can add it to the candles. This is from etsy site, quote from Mara:

"Another added benefit to using wax melts, is that UNLIKE candles, we CAN add pheromones to them. I recently found out that a lot of people are unaware of the fact that pheromones will produce a toxic gas upon touching flame, which makes pheromone candles unsafe. However, there is no such risk with wax melts, as they never touch flame, the wax is simply warmed and melted, and thus diffused, and that is completely safe. "

Thank you! There goes that idea. This is where I'm thinking that me wearing pheros around him to help keep things a bit more light hearted is my best option. He's a natural guy, no cologne, deodorants and all that so convincing him to wear something may be difficult.

 

Sadly his natural body odor ( after a hard days work ) smells exactly like alpha- androstenol to me, in a good way. I have never found anyone's BO to be like able, let alone a crazy powerful aphrodisiac. He thinks it's pretty weird that I like to roll around in his stinky dirty t-shirts, I seriously act like a cat on nip nuzzling up to his armpit. Yuck! And yumm! All at once. Sorry, TMI I imagine.

[Cycle Kitten]

Thank you Halo,

I'm going to need to start writing a cheat sheet to keep track. At least for me a calming blend is not required, I've been accused of having the patience of a saint.

 

In hindsight, I think I've worn sexology and LFN around him a couple times, wish I had payed more attention as to if they were good or bad days. The world of pheros is obviously much more complex than the description above the "add to cart" button.

[cheeseburger79]

I'm thinking you really should try out a couple spell oils. Serenity Potion, maybe even Peaceful Home for when he's around. Those things are nothing to sneeze at! They work better, IMHO, than pheros do. I dunno, I guess I'm sorta of the mind where if someone's brain chemistry is a little off base, why mess with it more? But I know folks love they're pheros! Just a thought.

Also, maybe gently let him know that you can be in treatment without taking medicine. I have a pretty awful anxiety issue, and my counselor actually comes right to my house once a week. It really helps to talk to him! Sometimes having an unbiased stranger as a sounding board goes a long ways. I've been offered antidepressants, but declined. No one can make him be medicated unless he wants to be. And I only said 'suicidal' because of the comment "I'm going to go away too". That sounds a little serious to me.

Good luck to you, whatever you decide, and again, big welcome to our home!

[Cycle Kitten]

Cheeseburger, I totally hear you on the brain chemistry thing. His lows are only during our solo time together, when I visit him. ( he is battling all the time, what I mean is that in terms of "us", I'm the only one who witnesses the obvious days of struggle, he is pretty guarded publicly ) The three of us are rather tied up professionally so it's rare that we are all in the same place. I know the BF is lonely quite a bit since the two of us travel extensively for work. Actually we all get lonely at times, but it hits him hardest.

 

He refuses to be medicated, I don't blame him or find fault with that, I simply try to be as understanding and supportive as I can. I hadn't realized when typing that "I'm going to go away too" could have been read differently. His meaning was that "I" (CK) will go away too, abandonment issues. Sorry for the confusion.

 

Our time is somewhat limited together, I try to spend a few days to a week with him every 4-8 weeks. It's hard, sometimes we are on opposite sides of the country. I want nothing more than for him to be happy and overcome his depression but I know it's something he has to work through. As far as pheros, I was looking for options that may help keep the mood a little more bright and relaxed when those bad days surface. It's a vicious cycle, he gets upset and depressed for being depressed around me.

 

Thanks so much for the insight and response. I feel for anyone who battles with anxiety and depression or cares for someone who is suffering. It can certainly weed out a garden of "friends".

[Rose Blackthorn]

Rose, your comments are always so... complete! And thoughtful and sensitive. Life goals. Haha! Too bad I'm too brash for it.

 

I third the therapy comment. Screw the stigmas! It helps and even if he is not suicidal, it sounds like he might benefit from therapy, or maybe couples therapy or something would help. Shit, I want to go to therapy too! Haha!

Thanks belle-ville!

 

I'm thinking you really should try out a couple spell oils. Serenity Potion, maybe even Peaceful Home for when he's around. Those things are nothing to sneeze at! They work better, IMHO, than pheros do. I dunno, I guess I'm sorta of the mind where if someone's brain chemistry is a little off base, why mess with it more? But I know folks love they're pheros! Just a thought.

Also, maybe gently let him know that you can be in treatment without taking medicine. I have a pretty awful anxiety issue, and my counselor actually comes right to my house once a week. It really helps to talk to him! Sometimes having an unbiased stranger as a sounding board goes a long ways. I've been offered antidepressants, but declined. No one can make him be medicated unless he wants to be. And I only said 'suicidal' because of the comment "I'm going to go away too". That sounds a little serious to me.

Good luck to you, whatever you decide, and again, big welcome to our home!

Agreed!

 

Cheeseburger, I totally hear you on the brain chemistry thing. His lows are only during our solo time together, when I visit him. ( he is battling all the time, what I mean is that in terms of "us", I'm the only one who witnesses the obvious days of struggle, he is pretty guarded publicly ) The three of us are rather tied up professionally so it's rare that we are all in the same place. I know the BF is lonely quite a bit since the two of us travel extensively for work. Actually we all get lonely at times, but it hits him hardest.

 

He refuses to be medicated, I don't blame him or find fault with that, I simply try to be as understanding and supportive as I can. I hadn't realized when typing that "I'm going to go away too" could have been read differently. His meaning was that "I" (CK) will go away too, abandonment issues. Sorry for the confusion.

 

Our time is somewhat limited together, I try to spend a few days to a week with him every 4-8 weeks. It's hard, sometimes we are on opposite sides of the country. I want nothing more than for him to be happy and overcome his depression but I know it's something he has to work through. As far as pheros, I was looking for options that may help keep the mood a little more bright and relaxed when those bad days surface. It's a vicious cycle, he gets upset and depressed for being depressed around me.

 

Thanks so much for the insight and response. I feel for anyone who battles with anxiety and depression or cares for someone who is suffering. It can certainly weed out a garden of "friends".

I misunderstood, CK. I thought that the three of you were living as a triad. Didn't realize he was living on his own. Could this be part of it I wonder? If so, do you and your husband have room ( on all levels, that is) to have him live with the two of you? I know that the people I have known who live a polyamorous lifestyle all seem to have different ways of approaching it. Like any relationship, there really is no one size fits all depending on the variables. I'm with you on the depression and anxiety and feeling for people. Like you, I am empathetic to a flaw. But I prefer that to just not caring. As for a phero, halo, do men respond to Levitation well?

[androstenol]

Nothing specific to add except welcome ! And just an outpouring of affection towards my fellow LPMP'ers. You ladies rock.

[Cycle Kitten]

Rose

He has a standing invitation to become a permanent resident in our home, perhaps that will work itself out someday. The BF and I work in similar professions that require a lot of travel, he doesn't maintain a permanent address, but all three of us actually want to find ourselves living in the same region/ state in the future. The hubby and I are on a 5 yr plan to make the move and hoping he will join us.

A place to hang his hat with people who will honor and respect his gypsy spirit and need to roam.

Nothing specific to add except welcome ! And just an outpouring of affection towards my fellow LPMP'ers. You ladies rock.

Agreed. I was looking for some simple recommendations from those with more experience. Not expecting such sincere replys and

concern, more so than I've recieved from a long time friend. Thank you all, I had not planned on divulging so much personal info, I'm very appreciative of the time you have taken to respond. Depression aside I have a pretty good sense of what is likely going on in his head in terms of our relationship but I don't want to be presumptuous and would much rather he open up and talk about his concerns so I can attempt to dislodge some of those fears. He stuggles enough with the weight of the outside world.

[cutie.pie]

Good luck CK!

[belle-ville]

He stuggles enough with the weight of the outside world.

It's alot to deal with, isn't it? *siiiiiigh* Good luck dear

Edited September 16, 2015 by belle-ville

[Rose Blackthorn]

Best of luck to you CK. And all of us. I am feeling the Turn of The Wheel very strongly this year and combined with Mercury Retrograde, am having a difficult time staying "light." I'm a Capricorn though, so this can always be a challenge. We can all only do our best.

[Cycle Kitten]

Best of luck to you CK. And all of us. I am feeling the Turn of The Wheel very strongly this year and combined with Mercury Retrograde, am having a difficult time staying "light." I'm a Capricorn though, so this can always be a challenge. We can all only do our best.

I don't think I've ever known a Capricorn that was easily "light", loyal yes, but never light. I too am feeling the wheel, seems a bit intense this year. Good luck to us all indeed. Ebb and flow.

 

We have a house full of water and fire, I'm a pisces, the boys are cancer, ( 2 sides of the same coin, very similar creatures yet fittingly yin and yang) we all have fire moons Aries/Leo. Hot sympathetic emotional mess, but somehow it works. I'm so glad Venus retro is over so we can get back to "hot". I refuse to let Mercury rain on my parade the next few days.

[Cycle Kitten]

Update:

My gig this past weekend cancelled so it enabled me to spend a few unplanned days with the BF. I've ordered an LPMP arsenal but haven't recieved them yet, serenity, open windows and such. TH was all I had on hand to experiment with.

 

Thursday night I pulled into gypsy camp wearing TH with LP red.the BF and I are both traveling performers, gypsy camp is the crew for their show. When a group of people travel, eat, sleep, work and play together it's much like any family, there is always some tension between two to all members. Thursday was a tense day for them and a few people went off on their own rather than join us out for dinner. Our dinner experience was a bit tragic, a table full of very hungry agitated people and the worst service and food experience I have ever known. I can only say that the BF was calmer than expected even though it really hurt him that he wanted to do something nice for the family by taking everyone to dinner and it went poorly. For him no good deed goes unpunished and it adds to the depression. We had a nice reunion when the night was over and he seemed a little softer and more communicative than normal. Not the crazy animal need to " be together" after a month of being apart.

Friday: I got up to make coffee and there was none in the camper. It was on the list and never purchased the day before. This is a very bad start to the day, no coffee is instant bad mood. I ran out to remedy the problem, made breakfast for the crew and went shopping for supplies when they started doing their morning shows. Put on a fresh dose of TH and LP red, then phero bombed the camper they all hang out in with a couple of spritz of alpha androstenol on my way out. I offered to make dinner for everyone at camp as I usually do but the BF, hating his camper, was a little hostile that morning about cooking in his broke down 8 sq ft kitchen. When I got to the store I decided to ignore him and texted everyone else my plans. Things were a bit calmer when I returned so I let the BF know we were eating in, his reaction was that there was no sense arguing with me and let it go. I added some Aja to my mix in the afternoon, mostly because I love it, and started the process of making food. Dinner for 10 with less than 2 ft of counter space takes careful planning and extra time. I noticed while I was working in the kitchen the BF was looking at me in a sexual but very affectionate way, daytime affection is not his forte, and especially with other people around. There was a moment when people evacuated jokingly making a statement about being in the way. The little brush by touches and small kisses while passing by are not his usual way. I was really impressed with him. Their day of shows went well and I had dinner ready, everyone stayed, ate together, laughed and talked, this is 10 people, often with tension between them in a 8x20 ft space. One of the girls with the show even cleaned up, put the food away and did the dishes. ( that never happens)

To shorten things, same potion for Saturday, not without its moments, but overall a good day for gypsy camp. I got a cake for the bosses bday and got everyone to sing. Although I consider these people family and we love to see each other, everyone was very vocally appreciative of all the normal things I do when I'm with them. I have the hostess gene naturally but for the last couple days it was like an echoing conga line of people saying "thank you _____". We are normally a huggy crew, but I also noticed a bit of innocent flirtatious commentary, even from the ladies. The BF was in the best head space I've seen in a while, he was openly affectionate in front of others and during daytime work hours, which isn't normal, and our alone time was more layed back and loving as well, he even forced himself to lay still for morning snuggles. Normally he rises with the sun like a bottle rocket.

Perhaps this should be a review for TH. I can't wait for my order to arrive and give OW, and cuddle bunny a run as well.

[Bella15]

I'm so glad it went well! Sounds like you've found a winner! Hope the others work out well for you too

[cheeseburger79]

I'm glad you had a great weekend! Rough start,maybe, but it sounds like it all smoothed right out!

[Rose Blackthorn]

Glad to hear, CK!

[Cycle Kitten]

I gave OW a try, not what I expected or hoped for, posted my experience in the review of OW thread. Though in hindsight I forgot to mention I layed it with serenity potion.

http://lovepotion.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=2586&page=3

Thinking I need a gallon of TH.