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Essence of Woman copulins

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There's been rumors flying around the net for a few months about the "strength" of the latest batch of EoW, (Essence of Woman by Stone Labs), the alcohol based one that Love Scent sells.

 

Now, even though we do not sell this product, I thought I would share with you some info since it doesn't seem to be available anywhere else on the net.

 

The formula is not weaker, it's that the indole has been taken out.

 

Indole is (sorry for being blunt) the smell of poop. Astrid Jutte included indole in her original recipe because it is part of the natural range of smells that emanate from that region of the body.

 

Phil Stone's original batch of EoW used her written recipe exactly. After it was produced and on the market, JV Koles informed Phil that while Astrid's recipe did indeed list indole, she never actually added the ingredient when she formulated it herself. (And by the way, as a matter of general interest - her testosterone reaction tests were conducted using ONE DROP of copulins diluted in ONE GALLON of water.) So, anyway, when Phil brewed up the next batch, he did not include the indole.

 

It's truly not that the latest batch is weaker. It still contains the exact amount of (for lack of a better word) pheromone solution as it did before. What has changed is the scent indicator everyone has been relying on to gauge how much they were wearing.

 

Understand?

 

There's a couple of other stinky molecules in there, that if you put enough of it on (too much of it on) you can probably get an indole-similar smell to come up, but the point is, if you are used to gauging the strength by your nose, you really can no longer do so. You'll perhaps have to trust your previous experience. If your previous experience told you that 3 drops gave you the reaction you were wishing for, then please, continue to use 3 drops. The copulin strength is every bit as concentrated as it always was. You should get the same reactions as before, you just won't smell it as much.

 

If we equate the indole note to perfume...it's not that the phero strength has decreased, it's that the perfume strength has decreased. It is falsely giving some people the impression that the product is not as concentrated as it was before, which is not the case.

 

I also checked with the lab this morning regarding the lots/batches that have been brewed since the product was put on the market. I think people are under the impression that there have been more batches than there really are. There have only been three. Total. Period.

 

From posts I've read around the net here and there, it seems that long-time EoW users assume there have been waaaay more than three batches because of scent variation. But remember, we LP Perfume users all know, that AGE has a lot to do with how perfumes smell over time...so does storage method...light, heat, cold, etc. So the perceived differences in the smell of EoW of the same batch may actually be attributed to any of these factors. It does not mean that there is less or more copulin formula in the bottles.

 

Hope this info helps clear up some questions or concerns.

:)

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Very interesting stuff Mara, I'm glad you could clarify that!

I always thought that the efficiency of cops was directly connected to their "perfume" strength, meaning that unlike pheromones that are partly "unconsciously" smelt, the scent of cops has to be "out there" to have any effects.

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Very interesting stuff Mara, I'm glad you could clarify that!

I always thought that the efficiency of cops was directly connected to their "perfume" strength, meaning that unlike pheromones that are partly "unconsciously" smelt, the scent of cops has to be "out there" to have any effects.

 

That was my understanding, too, but removing the indole from the formula is probably a good thing (or reducing the amount, at any rate ... and the butyric acid could probably be cut back too!) All those other acids still have a smell, just not THAT particular smell.

 

I think skatole is even more typical of the smell of feces than indole, though indole is in there ... indole is more like the smell of decay/death. When you keep lilies in the vase a couple of days too long ... that stink is indole.

 

I've seen aging mellow my alcohol-based EoW a lot, especially when I left it in the dropper top bottle it came in. I much prefer it aged; it became less cheesy, more fruity.

Edited by Carrie

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Hi Mademoiselle! :) Hi Carrie!

 

Not entirely.

 

This is such a hot topic lately, it's great to be able to discuss this.

 

That's assuming that the ONLY effect is one of scent/sense memory, which does not appear to be the case.

 

The chemical makeup of copulins also have a biological trigger effect. There are a number of things, while not PHEROMONES in the strictest sense, still induce pheromonal effects.

 

Popularly used ones in the phero industry, which have no perceivable odor, include DHEA, equilin and other estrogen derivatives, as well as many hormones and steroids...we could list them later if anyone is interested... Popularly used ones in the perfume industry include notes like civit and other animal musks, honey, and even vanilla and certain spices. There are obviously no pheromones in vanilla or cinnamon, but you can still elicit a pheromonal effect - a biological trigger, if used in a particular manner, (which is what my entire biz is based upon). But anyway, back on topic...

 

The chemical makeup of Jutte's formula is not 100% biologically identical to a human female. There were certain ingredients chosen because of their "stinky-ness" factor, to amp the scent part of the equation, but the chemical makeup of female vaginal fluid is still present, and that combination of molecules causes an unconscious, almost mechanical, response in people. Both men and women. Whether you can smell them or not.

 

I told the following story to Lor privately, I'm a tad hesitant to post it because I do not want to embarrass the person this story is about...but, what the hell, I don't think he ever reads the boards, and this is a really good illustration of my point...

I have a young friend, a teenage male. He's captivated by our perfumes. (He spends hours going through them all and smelling them - he has a really really good nose. He can identify the notes in a perfume like you wouldn't believe. Amazing.) I have never told him anything about pheromones or copulins because he is so young. But every time he's going thru them, what does he pick as his favorites? The ones with copulins in them. I never told him, because I don't want to embarrass him. His response to them is through the roof. He's over-effusively over the moon about them. He buries his nose in the aroma, and says stuff like, "I'm IN LOVE with this one!" "If I ever get a girlfriend, I want her to smell just like THIS." Or, "I'd make her wear this.", etc. Now, he's a virgin; he's never even had a girlfriend. So he has NO sense memory of what "sex" smells like. This is 100% a biological trigger, even without a target female involved. I have to say, that whenever he does this, I just shake my head and try not to crack up laughing - it's adorable and really funny. But it's blatant evidence that the cops are mentally and physically having an effect on him, without him having the "experience" to subconsciously equate the "smell" of the copulins to.

 

And also, in my opinion, I don't think that the batch of oil-based cops that Phil made for us are all that stinky either. Certainly, I can absolutely tell the difference between the batch that we have now, and the indole-laced bottles we used to buy from Love Scent two and a half years ago. Not as stinky, but they totally totally work.

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Just as a point of sniff-reference, would the Love Scent EOW be in stuff like the original Phero Girl (first brew, that is)? This is interesting stuff!

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Just as a point of sniff-reference, would the Love Scent EOW be in stuff like the original Phero Girl (first brew, that is)? This is interesting stuff!

 

Yup! You are correct! :) Gold star for Katz! LOL!

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Yup! You are correct! :) Gold star for Katz! LOL!

 

Woohoo! (puts star on forehead) That's surprising to me, that I sensed the indole note in there. I'm not usually that good...

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I was thinking that too, because of the fruity cheese factor (which I get from Phero Girl). The scent of EoW I discern of late is more like ripe fruit about two or three days past the point of consumption. Just a very deep presence but not a stink.

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I agree Luna- the stuff smells really "ok" to me, nothing through the roof outrageous. I was so worried when I got my first batch of Eow that it was going to stink like hell... but I guess i have a good tolerance for it. It isn't that bad to me.

Strangely enough, the oil version is the version I have a little trouble with, just because I find it harder to cover and I find it has a stronger smell. Could just be personal chemistry too.

 

Mara- your story about that young boy sure is fascinating. Teenagers are really hormone driven, so it's 'sort of' understandable that he'd be overwhelmed by the scent of cops, if copulins do have an "ingrained" biological significance to us.

 

Funny enough, I was thinking about cops self-effects today. There is a sort of controversy out there about whether copulins can provoke self-effects on female wearers or if it's just placebo.

I have a pretty good sex drive, but I always seem to feel more sexy, sexually powerful and in the mood when wearing cops.

To be exact, it's a power thing. Like "I have something that people want" kind of feeling. Ok, it could sound totally ridiculous, and maybe it is placebo effect, but it gives some sense of strength.

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I used to think that cops worked on sense memory alone - meaning, the smell alone, but since my introduction to them, I have learned a tremendous amount, both in experimenting with them and observing reactions like that of my young friend, and also in my discussions with people in the scientific community. Phil Stone is just a marvel to speak with, and funny enough, I have an uncle on the east coast - my mother's first cousin really, who is one of the foremost fertility experts in the country. He's a gyno surgeon. He and I were discussing pheros Christmas before last, not long after we first started using them. (I gave him a bottle of Phero Boy.) So he was sharing with me some of his knowledge on the subject. Then last Christmas I saw him again and we start talking about pheros again, and he tells me he actually knew Astrid Jutte! That she gave him a supply of her original formula! Wowsers! Small world, right?

 

Anyway, I'm in the camp that firmly believes that cops produce self effects in women. I've experienced it in myself, and I certainly see the effects it evokes in other women when I wear them, so why shouldn't it effect the wearer? I've experienced effects from ALL of our pheromone blends while I am pouring them. I think one gets "used to" whatever scent one is wearing and then you don't notice it as much as the day goes on, but other people still do - you know? So, it might be the same thing with pheros and cops. You get the strongest self effects when you first put it on, or when it "blooms", and then other than that, you just get accustomed to it as part of your own aura. Maybe?

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Then last Christmas I saw him again and we start talking about pheros again, and he tells me he actually knew Astrid Jutte! That she gave him a supply of her original formula! Wowsers! Small world, right?

That is amazing! So what was his impression of her original formula (heh, unless he felt strange sharing that with you)?

 

Anyway, I'm in the camp that firmly believes that cops produce self effects in women. I've experienced it in myself, and I certainly see the effects it evokes in other women when I wear them, so why shouldn't it effect the wearer? I've experienced effects from ALL of our pheromone blends while I am pouring them. I think one gets "used to" whatever scent one is wearing and then you don't notice it as much as the day goes on, but other people still do - you know? So, it might be the same thing with pheros and cops. You get the strongest self effects when you first put it on, or when it "blooms", and then other than that, you just get accustomed to it as part of your own aura. Maybe?

Absolutely, that's how it works for me as well. When your brain is actively engaged in that activity of recognizing a scent and also whatever phero effect there is, then you recognize the "presence" in a different way than hours later. Especially since phero effects tend to wear off after a time anyway. I think copulins also tell us the same information, it's just that we process it differently than men do (obvious observation is obvious).

Edited by luna65

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That is amazing! So what was his impression of her original formula (heh, unless he felt strange sharing that with you)?

 

He actually talked more about his impression of HER. He found her interesting for her intense passion on the subject, and also a bit "quirky", for much the same reason, I suspect. LOL! Ahhhh, yessss, all we creative geniuses get called quirky, right Luna? :rolleyes:

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For me, I feel a certain boost, not like with pheromones though. Let's say pheromones can feel like a shot of expresso & copulins feel more like a good replenishing carbohydrate dinner. How weird is that?

If cops mean fertility though, it makes sense that they mean 'power' in some primal way... :rolleyes:

 

One more thought before I got to bed ... even if copulins have an ingrained biological significance, and do not work on sense memory alone, they do work through their smell, am I right?

I mean they are detected thanks the odor they emit. Or are we saying that they somehow work beyond their scent, a little like pheromones?

Sorry if I'm making this confusing, just trying to understand :) :emot22:

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Ahhhh, yessss, all we creative geniuses get called quirky, right Luna? :rolleyes:

:)

Uh yeah...that's it! Well in your case, that's definitely it!

 

But that actually reminds me of being fortunate enough to attend one of Dr. Richard Feynman's lectures at Cal Tech in the mid-80s (the sister of my bf at the time was a student there) and wow...he was incredibly quirky (and hilarious) and I had no idea what he was talking about, really, but he still made it fascinating.

Edited by luna65

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One more thought before I got to bed ... even if copulins have an ingrained biological significance, and do not work on sense memory alone, they do work through their smell, am I right?

I mean they are detected thanks the odor they emit. Or are we saying that they somehow work beyond their scent, a little like pheromones?

Sorry if I'm making this confusing, just trying to understand :rolleyes: :emot22:

 

I think Mara is saying it is both....scent AND beyond....

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Guest Lor

I have always maintained that cops gave me self-effects :rolleyes:

 

While I take in alot of phero-research, I still trust my experience which clashes sometimes with studies (which,btw, most are inconclusive.so trust your instincts,gals)

 

I think anyone who purposefully LOOKS will find that more people wear EoW

without ever posting any outrageous reaction

....and they wear it often...

and feel sexier/good in general....and will continue to buy it....

get my drift?

We know what works with or without corroborating information..

 

Trick your body into feeling really good on days you dont feel so hot and your body doesnt know the difference.

It responds.

Its a beautiful thing.

 

EoW original was not my favorite thing. I had to play with it more, and it really "threw".

EoW as an oil is my alltime fave. I feel like its easy to cover and with all the flavors, theres no need to even figure that part out.

 

I freely admit I wear it everywhere at any time if the mood hits me.

Copulins are a gift and we make them.

I make them even if I dont have special plans that evening :) so if its ok with nature,

its ok with me.

 

And just for the record,

I want to state that regardless of what the scientists say, I believe cops DO behave as pheromones. ;)

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Thank you for posting this, Mara. Did the oil-based EoW also undergo the same change of formula? And if so, are there particular LP products with the newer reduced indole amount?

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Thank you for posting this, Mara. Did the oil-based EoW also undergo the same change of formula? And if so, are there particular LP products with the newer reduced indole amount?

 

We've only ever had the one batch, and it's without indole. We're still on our first. The batches he makes are HUGE - thousands of bottles worth. (Not sure of the batch size he makes for LS tho, but it's gotta be at least that much.) Phil never made it in oil until I specifically asked for it that way, so as far as I know, we are the only ones to ever have it and there is no other batches but ours in oil.

 

I was not aware of the whole indole issue/story until around maybe 8-9 months ago. I don't remember why it even came up in conversation...???...but I thought it WAS still in there until he told me otherwise. I didn't really think it was important to bring up until there began this little dust-up on the web about "the latest batch", so I thought I would try to help clear up any rumors.

 

I was wracking me brain trying to think of what we added the LS EoW alcohol to, and I think it was ONLY Phero Girl. Both in brew #1 and brew #2. We've actually been on brew #3 for quite a while now, and that one definitely has our Essence Oil in it.

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Mara, thanks so much for posting this! I have not bought any of the "newer" batch of alcohol-based EoW (since I started using Essence Oil), but this is very useful info for those out there who prefer to use the alcohol-based! And, straight from the horse's mouth.....the manufacturer himself!

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Soooo... all those times I've heard the first batch described as smelling like "butt cheese" on the PT forums... :(

 

Even so, thanks for posting this information... very interesting :wub:

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I also checked with the lab this morning regarding the lots/batches that have been brewed since the product was put on the market. I think people are under the impression that there have been more batches than there really are. There have only been three. Total. Period.

 

...Wow. This seriously throws me for a loop, because of all the talk over the years about how people thought they bought bottles from different batches and the smell was drastically different, etc. I need to process that for a second!

 

I echo everything Lor said. :)

Edited by LaurieNY

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I told the following story to Lor privately, I'm a tad hesitant to post it because I do not want to embarrass the person this story is about...but, what the hell, I don't think he ever reads the boards, and this is a really good illustration of my point...

I have a young friend, a teenage male. He's captivated by our perfumes. (He spends hours going through them all and smelling them - he has a really really good nose. He can identify the notes in a perfume like you wouldn't believe. Amazing.) I have never told him anything about pheromones or copulins because he is so young. But every time he's going thru them, what does he pick as his favorites? The ones with copulins in them. I never told him, because I don't want to embarrass him. His response to them is through the roof. He's over-effusively over the moon about them. He buries his nose in the aroma, and says stuff like, "I'm IN LOVE with this one!" "If I ever get a girlfriend, I want her to smell just like THIS." Or, "I'd make her wear this.", etc. Now, he's a virgin; he's never even had a girlfriend. So he has NO sense memory of what "sex" smells like. This is 100% a biological trigger, even without a target female involved. I have to say, that whenever he does this, I just shake my head and try not to crack up laughing - it's adorable and really funny. But it's blatant evidence that the cops are mentally and physically having an effect on him, without him having the "experience" to subconsciously equate the "smell" of the copulins to.

 

And also, in my opinion, I don't think that the batch of oil-based cops that Phil made for us are all that stinky either. Certainly, I can absolutely tell the difference between the batch that we have now, and the indole-laced bottles we used to buy from Love Scent two and a half years ago. Not as stinky, but they totally totally work.

 

So which ones are his particular faves?

I see a lot of female points of view here on which LPs are most popular (and also copular -sic!-) but I feel like a male point of view no matter whether teenage or not would be very useful as after all I play on wearing mine to elicit male response and bring on the

:( times

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It does make me wonder if any of the male members (pun intended :D) of the forum have had their partners of the moment wear cops to see how it improves playtime. There is a guy who wears cops himself from time to time and enjoys doing so, but he hasn't posted in a while. In my experience wearing them for my Quince he's never commented in regards to what is considered the catagorical scent, only the cover fragrance (however, he is olfactorily challenged). However, emperical evidence supports the assertion of the effect every time. :(

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It does make me wonder if any of the male members (pun intended :lol: ) of the forum have had their partners of the moment wear cops to see how it improves playtime. There is a guy who wears cops himself from time to time and enjoys doing so, but he hasn't posted in a while. In my experience wearing them for my Quince he's never commented in regards to what is considered the catagorical scent, only the cover fragrance (however, he is olfactorily challenged). However, emperical evidence supports the assertion of the effect every time. :(

 

male members haahahaa ..... :D

 

My bébé is not olfactorily challenged but either way I would not care, this is not l'ordre du jour....and from reading your posts naughty Luna I know you know what is l'ordre et c'est dans son pantalon que ca va se passer pour bébébulle...

 

Anyway all this being said, je suis very glad to hear your testimony as I did plan to have my tutti frutti scents making bébé mount tents in is trousers here there and everywhere at the sniff of my EoW, sexology, BI, Bam, ad infinitum and ad sexeum...

 

I am waiting on my first package from LP and also my first package from bébé from LP's first package if you get my (phero) drift...... :yeahthat:

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Got my happy package today & I don't have time give proper thanks/reviews, but this usage is muy importante, imo.

Opened package, went through smellies & gifties. Had to get ready for class / speech today & I was starting to feel anxiety. So I wracked my brain as to what, besides alcohol, I could reach for. That would relax me & inspire straight-up cool as a cucumber confidence. I remembered Dianne's mention of copulins having a vasodilation effect & her husbands lowered blood pressured as a pleasant side effect from using them. So I grabbed the naked EoW & applied 2 rolls total. To my nose, it smelled mildly of vinegar. My twelve yr.old came home 2 minutes into dry-don time and asked me what stank. "Mom it smells like sweat and cheese, yuck!" I told him I had on a pheromone & was waiting to cover stench, but it only smelled of vinegar to me. His response, "You ONLY smell vinegar??? It STANKS!" OMG!!!!!!!

Worried about offending, as I was originally planning to wear Sarasvati (for my speech). Switched gears and searched for the pinkest, sweetest LP I could find. Immediately at my disposal: LP Spring Equinox 2011

The freaking MAGIC combo for speeches! The copulins made me feel relaxed and confidant. With this combo, as I was waiting for the dry down & had just finished my make-up, I literally saw my face transform! It was so freaking cool!!! It like some kind of "air brush" effect. It worked on EVERYBODY! No jealousy what so ever from other women. I did wear my "old lady" sweater to hide my enormous jugs, as I seem to have put on a few more pounds. (Must cut out wine!) Anyway, I received 74 out 75 points possible on speech that I wrote 2 hours before class. The Instructor reviewed our grade with us after class, and let us see comments. His remarks: "Good energy." Amongst other technical review. Straight up cops are awesome sauce for relaxation purposes. I think I may even get a decent nights sleep, as I'm about to nod off as I type :)

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Straight up cops are awesome sauce for relaxation purposes. I think I may even get a decent nights sleep, as I'm about to nod off as I type :)

 

But seriously, do you think Sexiponage can be an EoW substitute in your case?

 

Another thing is that I love the self effects EoW provides in my home-made Sugared Honeycomb w EoW but I don't seem to get them from other cops loaded oils, not even the OCCO range.

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I hope I'm not reviving this thread unduly but I read it with some interest. A friend sent me a trial blend of an oil cops scent and my first reaction to it a couple weeks back was "EWWW! DIRTY BUTT!" But in the interim it seems to be mellowing out a bit; or maybe I'm just getting used to the smell, I am not quite sure. I did just apply some to my belly (read someplace here that was better than on the chest right under your nose) then rolled on some Cougar Potion scented atop that. And danged if it isn't downright pleasant with the CP on there. I don't smell sweat at all and never have, but there is definitely a...I dunno, it's not so much dirty butt smell anymore as much as it is generally an unwashed smell. But with the Cougar Potion (grapefruity stuff) I don't really detect bad stuffs.

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See I find this fascinating because I like the smell of cops. Now mind you I have not smelled them straight up except in my sexology unscented phero which is EOW and Beta androstenol (but the EOW is still pretty strong in it) I do smell the smell you are talking about but to me it smells like sex, not dirty butt. Whenever I smell OCCO black, pink, blue, or white or any of Mara's scents with EOW in them it's instant self effects (horniness)

 

I've heard others on this board share your opinion though so I know what you mean. I guess it morphs on our bodies.

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Uncut (or "neat") EoW is incredibly strong, it's meant to smell like vaginal secretions and some women cannot handle that scent even on themselves much less to smell it on a stronger level. This is why certain types of scents are recommended to cover it up, or the use of the OCCOs. Over time, with continued use, most get used to it.

 

Because I've never used EoW neat I guess I don't have as much of an issue. It can be strong sometimes (depending on the blend) but it doesn't offend me. Then again, I also am quite fond of body odors.

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me too. My husband thinks I'm crazy when I want to jump his bones after he's been doing physical activity like cutting wood, or other manly things. He just smells so .... mannish. I'm lucky though. He doesn't ever smell like the ghastly B.O. that you smell on the guy next to you on the bus or the hardware store.

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I'm uncertain if this happens or happened to any of you. I use cops about twice a week or so when I'm working. I've been on vacation (hanging around at home or with my kids) for 4 weeks now and have not been using scents on a daily & nightly basis, 50% of the time at best, I feel fat and unattractive ....... okay, I tend to eat more in winter (and thus put on perhaps 2 kgs or so) and I don't go out much during this season (and thus wear sweat pants at home). I feel much better after applying some cops. I know that there are many factors which I have to consider. Is there a chance that I may be addicted to cops?

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Psychologically, perhaps. But I'm not sure how you could be addicted to something your body actually produces.

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I'm just thinking .... I'm 40 and have not been on any b/c. Before I know about the existence of cops & pheros (that's 1.5 yrs ago), I was already a confident person and getting quite a bit of attention. I assume that I was and still am producing some cops.

 

I feel more feminine when I use cops. Like, I want to sway my hips an extra inch, etc. and depending on the amt of cops I use, I do get more frisky even when alone. It's like a a boost, a natural high to be 'surrounded' by the extra cops.

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Would the average person be attracted to the smell of poo? I don't think the phrase "curtesy flush" would have ever been invented, if it were true, lol.

 

I just find it funny that poo was ever in the stuff. ^_^

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I found a good way of using up my old love scent EOW in alcohol. I bought a five ml bottle w/roller top. Filled it with 2ml fragrance (vanilla/toffee posset didn't want to risk any of my LP's lol)and then filled the rest of the bottle with EOW. Now it still stinks and all and I have to shake before using, but it helps me survive the dry down period so I can use a cover scent. I find that the EOW covers easier like that for some reason, having some tiny bit of light scent added to it and then letting it dry down before covering. :Emoticons0086:

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An LP sniffie would have mixed with the alcohol though. Possets uses vegetable oil base that doesn't mix with anything.

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I'm just thinking .... I'm 40 and have not been on any b/c. Before I know about the existence of cops & pheros (that's 1.5 yrs ago), I was already a confident person and getting quite a bit of attention. I assume that I was and still am producing some cops.

 

I feel more feminine when I use cops. Like, I want to sway my hips an extra inch, etc. and depending on the amt of cops I use, I do get more frisky even when alone. It's like a a boost, a natural high to be 'surrounded' by the extra cops.

 

I am this way too. For me just makes me feel "I am FEMALE x 7" haha. I get a boost too.

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I am this way too. For me just makes me feel "I am FEMALE x 7" haha. I get a boost too.

 

That's what I'm worried of .....

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