How to make him talk

[Cycle Kitten]

The situation:

The BF is depressive and anxiety prone, not very good with expressing what's going on in his head or heart. He often says stupid things and gets upset with me for things I simply do not understand. Trying to portray the specifics would require a novel.

Last night I cried myself to sleep after a phone conversation, not having a clue what he was tripping on, and I'm leaving today to spend a few days with him. It will be months before I see him again and I have seriously considered not going, which will only make it worse and break my heart.

 

Sigh, he just called, wondering when I'll be there, and it seems everything is fine, like nothing happened, this is normal.

 

What I believe:

He has some internal struggle dealing with his emotional attachment to me, he's been hurt, his self worth destroyed, and doesn't have much experience dealing with love. I'm the opposite of everything he knows, empathy, patience and love are my forte, not to sound weird about that. I think my experience with him has illuminated me to those qualities in myself. Loving someone who struggles with depression is a full time commitment.

 

I'm already struggling with the knowledge that I won't see him for awhile. I really want him to open up and get whatever it is out in the open, for better or worse. It's been years and we both need to come to terms with whatever it is that's ailing him, at least in terms of "us". The constant struggle between him pushing me away one minute and having a death grip on me the next is wearing me thin.

 

I can't risk anything with A1 in it, if anyone has a suggestion on a blend that could help him communicate and deal with his emotions I'm all ears. I've spent hours/days reading review threads, I guess I'm hoping that someone has experience with similar circumstances and could provide some helpful insight.

 

If we part at some point I'd rather not have a bunch of unsaid things that should have been addressed, and I really want him to be better for our time together, not further damaged.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Cycle Kitten

[StacyK]

Honestly he sounds exhausting. IDK, I really think he should get counseling. Not all of his problems are related to you. I know it's hard to see someone you care for hurting. Truthfully there's only so much you can do. You also have to accept that all the right things might not ever be said. It's ultimately going to be his choice if he chooses to get help or heal.

 

It does sound like the downsloping of a relationship. But, in the past you've said he has depression issues so hard to say.

Is this affecting you and your hubby? At some point at lest the two of you should discuss this.

 

As far as pheros that help. True Confessions & TMI are the best for getting someone to talk. But, again only if they really want too. I personally like TC for this and it has work for me in the past. But, fair warning, it can make you more chatty than you might like so think it through. TMI is just impossible for me to use (I get way to chatty). But, others have great success with it.

In Dolly's journal she has a thread where she combined TC & Treasured Hearts to good effect. I tried that and found it useful with the additional benefit of me not chirping away as much.

 

http://lovepotion.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=7138&do=findComment&comment=202975

 

I hope you can work it out. But, remember he has to want to solve his own things as much as you do.

[Cycle Kitten]

Thanks for your insight Stacy, I have tmi and TH,he actually responds well to TH, not sure if that would be a similar combo as I don't have TC.

I am concerned I may blurt out some things that ramble in my head, though I'm normally very open with my head and heart. My situation isnt conducive to having secrets. Last night was not the first time my hubby has held me close while shedding tears over the BF. It's not really affecting us, we are like a mountain of rocks together. I was considering gotcha but uncertain if that would be helpful.

 

The BF is a tortured soul, affection wasn't something he was accustomed to as a child, and the ex wife didn't help. He's been in my life for 8. Years, and I've witnessed a lot of growth in him over the last few. He isn't into meds or doctors and I respect that so I've done all I can herbally. It seems to have helped, and having someone he can rely on, to listen to him and be his friend without judgement. He calls when he's manic to hear a calming voice and I don't mind being that call. He says he's never known anyone like me. I've gotten pretty good at weeding out what is directly related to me and what isn't.

 

It is exhausting at times, but there are also many magical moments, and I truly love him and want the best for him. Even at the expense of my own heart if that's how it is to be.

 

I used to think the pushing away was him feeling second, protecting his heart, but we are far too deep to feel that way. Or at least I think we are. I just wish he was more open about what his concerns or troubles are so that we can talk about it and move on, grow together, or grow apart if it can't be resolved. I just don't want to be another dent in his heart. Or have things end on a sour note. It could be the downslope, it's hard to tell since this is somewhat business as usual. It's been a long time, reliving the same patterns isn't healthy for either of us.

[StacyK]

You & hubby are both so generous.

 

Psychologists don't use drugs in their therapies.

There are many type of practices.

 

The thing is sometimes severe depression requires meds. But, not always. There are also group meetings etc. There's really a ton of stuff available for someone who wants to heal. It's scary to take that first step though.

 

Reliving patterns is not healthy. Not for you guys or him. Just be open, honest and loving. That's all you can do.

 

If he responds well to TH. Consider giving your TMI & TH a try. As I said I found that when I tried Dolly's dosage (in her journal) it really worked well. TMI & True Confessions contain the same pheros. But, at different ratios. In my case the TH really evened me out and the other person was open and chatting. You might want to give it a try with your TMI & TH.

Edited June 22, 2016 by StacyK

[Cycle Kitten]

Thanks so much, I'm going to give that combo a go, at least I know TH is good, he gets more openly affectionate, not in a sexual way. But in a way that's strange territory for him. ( I started wearing it around him because there are usually alpha females around that can be awful bitchy ) His extra attention was a bonus. I guess I shouldn't worry too much since I'm pretty open anyway, and I've definatley honed some listening skills with this relationship. I fear I'm as close to therapy as he will go. And I know it's not my responsibility but I'm the only positive force in his life.

 

He and my hubby are very similar creatures, same sign, same body ticks, but also polar opposites in some ways, yin and yang. I think I sometimes see in the BF what would become of my hubby if something happened to me. Actually the hubby has said so much. This is a path I certainly never planned, I guess the universe had other ideas. Some weird karmic wheel I may never understand.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Cycle Kitten

[quietguy]

Loving someone who struggles with depression is a full time commitment.

 

Yes it is. But you also say he has manic phases. Bi polar and cycling perhaps?

[Cycle Kitten]

I'm really thinking bipolar, I need to research that more. Jekyll and Hyde in a mere second. Then he gets even more upset with himself because he is the way he is. It's really difficult for people around him. It seems no one else sees how's painful it is when he hides after an episode. Most just think he's an a-hole and don't realize he has no internal monologue, whatever goes through his head comes out the mouth.

[cheeseburger79]

Dude, CycleKitten, he's totally bi-polar. I'm no doctor, but my ex fiancé was and my daughters Dad is. My ex fiancé was so messed up that he ended up overdosing. He was my best friend for years after we broke up, and it killed me.

Look man, I respect that you've done so much for this guy. You've done your best. But a mountain of herbs and all the flowery language and tears, babying and cuddling on earth won't change a lick of what's wrong with this man because there is a chemical imbalance in his brain that needs clinical leveling.

You can't do it, your husband can't do it. For his own good he's got to man up and take that first step to get professional help. Bi polarism does not go away on its own, and it can make a person decline to the point of hurting themselves if left untreated. If he had a heart problem he'd see a doctor, right? Well, mental illness is just another illness, despite the stigma people still seem to carry about it.

I've been in and out of therapy a few times myself. I can honestly say I think it saved my life at one point, about 9 years back. He's a grown man though Cycle. He's got to pull up his pants and go. For his own good.

And you, well if I were you, after this visit I wouldn't go back to see him until he's in treatment. You enable this behavior by saying "oh honey, it's ok, I'm here. Tell me all about it."....YOU are his drug of choice right now and believe me sister he will use you UP. So stop enabling.

I really don't mean to sound harsh. I know I haven't been around that much but I'm in medical school of sorts right now, and raising Lena so I've been busy. But I like you. You've been a member here for awhile and you seem really cool.But you've been telling us about his problematic ass for over a year now. Come on man, don't be a doormat. Don't make excuses for this guy. I don't think he's doing this stuff to you intentionally. I truly think there's a chemical imbalance there. But just as an alcoholic needs to seek help for himself and his unacceptable behavior, so does a person with mental problems. It's an illness that can be treated, just like any other, but he needs to take the first step.

Until he does, stop the enabling, the coddling, because that's what it is. There's tortured souls everywhere. Things are tough all over. But that's no excuse for him not to do something about his issues other than wallow in them and drag his loved ones down.

Doesnt mean you don't love him,but the old cliche is true. You have to love you more. When you see him this time, before you leave set him down and tell him nicely but seriously "look I love you, but you are draining me. I don't think I'm equipped to help you with this because I think you may be bi polar"...and then explain that it's really a pretty easily fixed chemical Imbalance. Then how if he values the relationship, he'll try treatment.

I wish you the best of luck! I think herbs are great in some instances, but not this one. Sometimes bipolar people that get left unchecked really do the worst to themselves, so it's very important he goes. It's not something to mess around with. Good luck and bless you guys.

[johnsonlisa90012]

I am in the Cheesey camp also...they use you up....they are emotional vampires.....and at the end you really see how powerless you are when they get worse because mental illness is progressive. Untreated, it always gets worse. Stay strong Cycle

[halo0073]

Wow. I find it really useless to oversimplify what millions of people go through down to reductive stereotypes. Not all bipolar people are emotional vampires. Not all mentally ill people use you up. Speaking as one myself I don't use up all of anything from anybody I love. But I agree treatment is absolutely essential CK. Please feel free to message me on Facebook if you need first hand experience.

[cheeseburger79]

I don't think that's what I'm doing here Halo. In HER case that is happening. She's been talking about how draining he is for a year. In MY case, that's what happened too.

I have an anxiety disorder and mild OCD which was much worse as a kid. I need therapy too, and I have a therapist. In the past though, it really did save my ass. And my untreated friend died. I'm not stereotyping anyone, but I'm saying he needs treatment. Right now he's using CK as his pseudo shrink, and that's not fair to her. I've been there. Twice. Maybe you are an exception, but it isn't a picnic trying to help someone who won't help themselves, and in this guys case, I really think he needs a professional. He is exhausting HER. And this same thing has exhausted ME.

I don't feel at any point that I boxed in 'all mentally ill people'. I stand by what I said about treatment though. He needs it. And a lot of mentally ill people who could benefit from it go unhelped because of STIGMA. I'm sorry if you thought I meant everyone, but yes it can be very draining on the people who love someone bipolar. I'm not saying they aren't good people. I'm not saying it isn't worth loving them. But when you get to the point where you are drained and beginning to resent them, and they won't get help, it's time to cut the cord. Would you stay with an active alcoholic that didn't get help? If it was wearing you down?

All I'm saying is, it's an illness. So is addiction. So is cancer. When your sick you go to the doctor. And if someone I love had cancer and didn't go to the doctor, I would find it ridiculous. Wouldn't you? How is mental illness any different?

Edited June 27, 2016 by cheeseburger79

[quietguy]

If he is bipolar, then he really does need to seek treatment. The percent of people who are bipolar and end up killing themselves during those troughs is sadly very high.

[johnsonlisa90012]

Halo, I don't mean to reduce this to stereotypes as no one is an intentional vampire. But when my daughter, husband, mother in law, sisters in law etc are in the manic stage or depressive stage, I feel emotionally drained and out of gas. I have a whole lineage of this brutal disease in my family. I have been to parents Ed, wives Ed, dual diagnosis treatment for years. I have spent over $60k trying to find out if my daughter is really bipolar 1 or 2 and how her various addictions have played into her diagnoses. I can see how it would seem that we were stereotyping and for the way that message landed on you. But for the caregiver, even the best intentioned person with this disease can exhaust you. And back to my biggest point, we can't fix or make it better as caregivers, other than leading the person to capable medical attention which is so hard when adequate and timely mental health care is ridiculously inadequate (at least in California). I am so sorry for those that have this disease as well as those who love them and try to find solutions.

[Cycle Kitten]

I appreciate everyone's response here, I actually hadn't realized how much I've posted about my situation. This has been a hard road, and my non traditional relationship is something many people would not understand or accept so I've had very limited resources for a friendly ear. So thank you all for reading my banter and offering your insight.

 

Cheesey, honestly I think I needed to hear that bit of tough love. I can admit to enabling and coddling, but I have also stood my ground and provided some proper tongue lashings. I've always been a home for wayward souls. It's hard to find a balance or define a line when enough is enough. Empathy and nurturing are traits I have to a fault. I have managed to let go of many people over the years when I finally realized they were never going to help themselves. Most of them were people who attached themselves to me, not relationships I sought out or truly wanted. This one is very different, he is embedded in my soul, not to sound crazy, there is something that defies all logic between us. Because of how I'm wired im very guarded with my heart, it takes a long time for me to get close to someone. The people I've allowed in have been part of my life ever since they were admitted into my circle.

The BF is not in denial of his nature, and that is part of the problem, beating himself up because he is the way he is. He is also a kind, soft hearted empathic soul. Infectiously charming and charismatic, when he isn't manic. I've gotten pretty good at reading him, recognizing that some of his attempts to push away are for my benefit, he doesn't want to drag me down, doesn't feel he deserves to have me in his life. He doesn't have experience with love, and I know that self love is the foundation to being whole. I'm trying to show him the way. There is progress, not in a clinical sense, but the people who are around him most, and myself, have noticed some positives. It's absolutely an uphill battle to show a grown man in his 50's new ways to look at life in general. Harder still under the circumstances. He is phobic in regards to medicine, I don't foresee counseling anytime soon, perhaps ever. As much as it pains me to say so, in terms of seeking health care for heart trouble or anything else, unlikely. He is going to scratch his way through life until something takes him, and he will likely be ignorant to the cause. I know most people would have issue with this, but I also see the other side of it. I ask myself is it better to know that you are dying from "x", obsessing over it, allowing it to weigh you and those that love you down, or better to live free from that and just live? I don't have an answer, for each of us it is different, In my own experience the loss of loved ones that came suddenly v's those lost to long term battles with "x" we're somehow less painful. Depression is already a heavy load to carry. His circumstances are also not conducive to treatment as they are. Always traveling, no permanent address, or insurance, a different city every week. I'm not making excuses, it is just the way it is. Am I hopeful that I can make more of a difference or that someday treatment is an option? Absolutely, it's just not where we are yet. I am trained clergy, can legally provide council, but being intimately involved does change everything. I'm not ready to give up, but I do need a break. Right now I have no set plans to spend time with him, and need to focus on other aspects of my life, even though it's going to be hard for me to stay away since my heart very much wants to be near him. The normal weeks apart, my husband, and other parts of my life usually provide me with time to recharge and reflect. This will likely be the longest amount of time that passes where I don't see him since the beginning of our relationship. Knowing that sadly put both of us on the empathetic edge this weekend. There wasn't much opportunity for us to talk since there were many other people around, he was also working and exhausted.

 

Halo, I would actually love to hear your experience, I think it would be a great resource to have some insight from the other side. I'm not a depressive person, I live on the side of every moment being precious, but that may stem from having come close to losing my life several times for varying reasons. He has said that it's sometimes difficult for him being anxious, always 20 minutes to a millennia ahead of the moment to cope with my slow motion, right here, right now way of being.

 

This is the first and only forum I've been part of. I've read some fantastically raw experiences and wonderful advice, heartfelt concern and some of the funniest shit I've ever seen. Just, thanks, for being your sweet freaky selves.

Edited June 27, 2016 by Cycle Kitten

[Cycle Kitten]

Halo, I don't mean to reduce this to stereotypes as no one is an intentional vampire. But when my daughter, husband, mother in law, sisters in law etc are in the manic stage or depressive stage, I feel emotionally drained and out of gas. I have a whole lineage of this brutal disease in my family. I have been to parents Ed, wives Ed, dual diagnosis treatment for years. I have spent over $60k trying to find out if my daughter is really bipolar 1 or 2 and how her various addictions have played into her diagnoses. I can see how it would seem that we were stereotyping and for the way that message landed on you. But for the caregiver, even the best intentioned person with this disease can exhaust you. And back to my biggest point, we can't fix or make it better as caregivers, other than leading the person to capable medical attention which is so hard when adequate and timely mental health care is ridiculously inadequate (at least in California). I am so sorry for those that have this disease as well as those who love them and try to find solutions.

Adequate and timely healthcare in general is a serious problem, and to some extent it is all a guessing game, three doctors will likely produce 2-3 different diagnosis. He doesn't have any faith or trust with the medical community. The anxiety alone of a doctors office is more than he can bare, I have been down this road already for broken bones and such. For those of us that can handle a medical visit, it's easy for us to say " seek medical attention". For someone like him it's asking to voluntarily do something that is the most traumatic thing they could possibly dream of. I hear where everyone is coming from about professional help, I even agree to some extent. It simply doesn't fit for this person, or at the very least not presently. And that isn't even factoring in the financial aspect or location issues.

 

I'm very much aware of the burden this places on myself as far as being a caregiver. Im just trying to work with what I have.

[StacyK]

If he is bipolar, then he really does need to seek treatment. The percent of people who are bipolar and end up killing themselves during those troughs is sadly very high.

Yes this. This is what it's about.

 

The hitch is, he has to choose to get help. Bipolar or not (he hasn't been diagnosed yet) Depression is also just as potentially dangerous.

Cheesy, I get what you were saying. But, approaches in these cases are not a one size fits all. Your intentions are good. But, you can't force people to get help. You're going to see a lot of that in healthcare. It's the hardest part.

Tough love works for some and not others. Being confrontational to someone in a depressive state rarely works.

 

Ck, it should be noted that enabling someone in that case doesn't work, in the long term. Not that, that's what you are doing. Just be aware of that line.

 

Halo is also correct, not all depressed people are manipulative. Though dealing with someone severely depressed ( I'm not comfortable saying he's Bi-polar unless he's been diagnosed) can at times feel like that. I've lived with a true gaslighting, manipulative asshole. Trust me there's a difference. I've lived with depression. Ive dealt with it at work and home with others. There is a difference.

 

CK- the thing is .. there is no herbal cure. His statement that he "doesn't believe in medicine" well what I can I say. It exists. I find most people who say that are afraid. I don't blame him. It's very scary to take that first step.

You are there dealing with this first hand. Use your instincts in making your approach. Fuck it! Use pheros if it helps.

But, if you can, gently but firmly tell him at some point, he should get help to get past this place he's stuck in.

Don't start with that, work your way there. I can tell you have a great amount of patience and feel you have the ability to get there and give him his best shot. You've respected him and his opinions.

But, there's a reality here that he has to deal with and most likely he'll try like hell to avoid it.

I do think you can see it won't go away on its own.

 

You need to tell him he must take some first step. He may try to make you feel bad for doing that. He may try to manipulate you in a very childlike way. But, if you had a child who had to do something, even though they didn't want to, how world you handle it? Firmly but with love. That's all you can do. It's sort of a 2 steps forward 2 steps back dance at first.

Also, and this is critical for you, you must understand that it's ultimately his choice. Nothing that happens is your fault,

Edited June 27, 2016 by StacyK

[cheeseburger79]

Hi CK. No problem. I hope you didn't think I was being too harsh..I have just been down that line with a couple different men and it's so hard sometimes. I don't want you to

ever feel like you can't tell us things on this forum. I just know, that when you joined up here, you were having problems with him, and you are still. And it's so tough to get hopeful and see a change occur, only to realize over and over its just another hill on the roller coaster. I guess I was just trying to spare you from that in my way..I sure didn't mean to offend anyone, it was just my personal experience.

I also didn't know you were clergy. Yeah, your definetly equipped then, to help counsel people in need. I also didn't know he was in his 50's. Definetly set in his ways by now I imagine. Too bad he's got such a bad phobia about treatment. I guess you might be the only therapy he gets then. ..ah, hey. You love this guy, obviously. It sounds like in your situation, your doing the right thing. It's lucky you have breaks though, and a great husband to help smooth stuff out. Just take care of yourself, that's all.

At least addiction isn't involved. It is what happened to me when I had panic attacks and such some years back, and treatment was my way clear. My best friend didn't get help and he died of a heroin overdose. He was my fiancé at one point, but came out of the closet to me a couple years after we broke up. We stayed friends through all of it, and like you I had that cosmic bond thing with him( you don't sound crazy!), we could finish each other's sentences, and if something was wrong in the other ones life, we just KNEW, and would call each other up and say 'ok, somethings up, what's wrong?". We had the same sense of humor..hell we even sort of looked alike. I miss him every day. When he was manic, geez he was fun. Life of the party, you know? But the depression was bad. The swings were severe, and for years man, at least 12 years I did what your doing now. Played the savior, over and over.

The last two years of his life he went to heroin and we drifted apart a bit. We still talked, but I stopped partying and he didn't. He found other people to enable the lifestyle, I couldn't do it anymore. We still saw each other occasionally if he was sober, but not nearly as much as we had before.

And did it hurt any less that I pulled away? In the end, no. I was devastated. I wondered if I could have saved him if I'd been around more. I had a lot of guilt, and an empty space that no one can ever fill. So I can't tell you that pulling away will save your heart. But at least your story is different than mine. Eddie had a lot more issues than this guy does I guess, or at least different ones. I just wish I would have pushed therapy at him more than I did, back when I still could.

Sorry for the rambling CK. I went back in time a little bit for a second. Anyways, I wish you all the luck on earth, and him as well. Like I said, at least drugs aren't involved, so you have that going for you.

Just take care of yourself, and see if there's someone who can share the load with you, you know? Maybe your husband can help talk to him, or a sister or friend. Good luck. Much love to you guys, and God bless.

Edited June 27, 2016 by cheeseburger79

[Cycle Kitten]

Yes this. This is what it's about.

The hitch is, he has to choose to get help. Bipolar or not (he hasn't been diagnosed yet) Depression is also just as potentially dangerous.

Cheesy, I get what you were saying. But, approaches in these cases are not a one size fits all. Your intentions are good. But, you can't force people to get help. You're going to see a lot of that in healthcare. It's the hardest part.

Tough love works for some and not others. Being confrontational to someone in a depressive state rarely works.

Ck, it should be noted that enabling someone in that case doesn't work, in the long term. Not that, that's what you are doing. Just be aware of that line.

Halo is also correct, not all depressed people are manipulative. Though dealing with someone severely depressed ( I'm not comfortable saying he's Bi-polar unless he's been diagnosed) can at times feel like that. I've lived with a true gaslighting, manipulative asshole. Trust me there's a difference. I've lived with depression. Ive dealt with it at work and home with others. There is a difference.

CK- the thing is .. there is no herbal cure. His statement that he "doesn't believe in medicine" well what I can I say. It exists. I find most people who say that are afraid. I don't blame him. It's very scary to take that first step.

You are there dealing with this first hand. Use your instincts in making your approach. Fuck it! Use pheros if it helps.

But, if you can, gently but firmly tell him at some point, he should get help to get past this place he's stuck in.

Don't start with that, work your way there. I can tell you have a great amount of patience and feel you have the ability to get there and give him his best shot. You've respected him and his opinions.

But, there's a reality here that he has to deal with and most likely he'll try like hell to avoid it.

I do think can see it won't go away on its own.

You need to tell him he must take some first step. He may try to make you feel bad for doing that. He may try to manipulate you in a very childlike way. But, if you had a child who had to do something, even though they didn't want to, how world you handle it? Firmly but with love. That's all you can do. It's sort of a 2 steps forward 2 steps back dance at first.

Also, and this is critical for you, you must understand that it's ultimately his choice. Nothing that happens is your fault,

I'm in total agreement here, each and every person, situation, and the way it needs to be approached is different. I do worry about the possibilities of what QG has posted. Especially since there have been a few moments where I was quite concerned and he stated he couldn't put his mom through something like that. How many years before that statement no longer applies? I do see the potential for his demise through risky behavior over self inflicted. For the time being he hasn't displayed anything that has me on intervention mode, not anything I feel was said with any sincerity or commitment if that makes sense.

Being very much empathic, I'm pretty good at picking and choosing battles, coddling when it seems appropriate or when it's the only way to keep things from becoming a bigger issue, and being firm when necessary, or when it feels as though his response won't be too dramatic. It's not easy in any way. Patience is something I've discovered all new boundaries in through this experience. I'm pretty sure a younger me would have given up long before now. Witnessing the change and growth that has occurred is probably what keeps me going. That and loving him. Only time will tell how things progress.

I'm very good at knowing and understanding that most of his outbursts have nothing to do with me, that's something no one close to him seems to be able to recognize. I don't take it personally unless it is. And I try to help him, as best I can, see things from another perspective when he is upset with someone. I get emotional at times, tears are shed, I'm a pisces, crying is our gift to the world, but I don't feel as though anything is my fault. Its sometimes impossible to hold back the tears even when I know it's not personal, I'm human. I don't find him manipulative, if anything he tries to push people away so they don't have to deal with him. We communicate, probably better than anyone else in his life, but about all things outside of our relationship. That's where we hit some walls.

 

Perhaps someday he will take that step, maybe I'll be holding his hand in the process. For now I'm one of the very few people who have not given up or abandoned him. At this time I don't want to be on that longer list.

 

I'm curious StacyK, are you employed in a counseling feild? I only ask because you really seem to have a knack for good, thoughtful advice.

[cheeseburger79]

I just read what Stacy wrote and I agree whole heartedly. She said what I was trying to say, but more sensibly.

I know you can't control anyone and make them get help. I wish. I have been to alanon a few times over because I needed it.

What you can do is control yourself. You can remove yourself from the situation and hopefully it causes the person to seek help. I'm not saying that's nessecarily what's right for ck, but that's what we learn in treatment. You can't fix others, only yourself. And if you remove your 'assistance' you hope for a rock bottom of sorts, just like with an alcoholic. You stop enabling behavior in the hopes it causes a positive change.

[Cycle Kitten]

"Just take care of yourself, and see if there's someone who can share the load with you, you know? Maybe your husband can help talk to him, or a sister or friend. Good luck. Much love to you guys, and God bless. "

I didn't take any offense Cheesey, we all draw from our own experiences, and sometimes a bit of harshness can shake things up just enough to clear your head. Reading something as text is also cold communication, it's hard to portray emotion and concern, or a real image of a situation. Unless you are a gifted writer I suppose. I don't profess to be gifted there and I'm sure my own posts can be erratic or not concise. And where he is the topic, a mix of mature thought out statements, and the ramblings of a woman in love, full of emotion.

 

You can't truly understand the workings of a relationship unless you are in it, and there is plenty of grey matter to be had if you are.

 

Due to the poly thing sharing the load has been a bit of an issue, aLso, not everyone possesses the patience. There are quite a few people in our lives that are good and accepting but not too involved. And where family is concerned, well, we still have a few garments in the closet, like my husband.

 

It's all good. And your personal story is good food for thought, thank you for sharing it.

[StacyK]

I'm curious StacyK, are you employed in a counseling feild? I only ask because you really seem to have a knack for good, thoughtful advice.

Nursing. Thank you. It's something you learn over time.

It's easier to be objective when one is not in the family or the relationship.

I think you are, at this time, seeing he needs help. It's a sobering realization. Frightening, in that trying to help someone, you take on a bit of responsibility for their care. You can't do it all. It's mostly on him. That's why they give people that little chip in AA. Support is important but it's on them. You have to do it and do it for you.

That's important to recognize. If he doesn't do it and the relationships deteriorate you've got to know its not about you. It's not about him being "ungrateful" or.,,? It's an illness that needs recognition and care/treatments ( of some sort).

 

I think your first step of trying to talk with him is a good choice, See if he'll open up, use the pheros, try your best. Just remember that at some point if things are not going forward in some small way, you might need to give him a gentle push. I think you'll know it when you feel it.

 

CB

It's a whole other world, though there are some parallels, when someone is an addict. That's another layer or 3 of crap on top of whatever the underlying issue/s are. At a point, with any of it, there has to be a bottom line for family members, friends, SO's etc of what is acceptable behavior regardless of the individuals' issue. That's why people usually need to get help outside of personal relationships. It's also crucial to remember that loosing a close important relationship is sometimes the push 'some' need to get help. But, that's a call the SO's need to make. It's possible to give support and love without enabling. It's a line family and friends must watch and constantly stay aware of. Your call going to Alanon was a good one for you. It helps to know where that is.

Edited June 27, 2016 by StacyK

[cheeseburger79]

Thanks Stacy. It did help, alot. And cool your in nursing. I'm in school for CMA, but the more I go, the more I love it! I'm pretty sure I'm going to say heck with it and go all the way to RN.

[StacyK]

Thanks Stacy. It did help, alot. And cool your in nursing. I'm in school for CMA, but the more I go, the more I love it! I'm pretty sure I'm going to say heck with it and go all the way to RN.

What you are doing is the smart way to do it. You can take it in levels that way it's easy on the $ and you continue to build your skill set. The scheduling can be conducive to going to school or just work, work Work to build up your experience and savings.. You'll have ups and downs but if you love it and having the purpose to your life it can be rewarding. I know really good CMA's who I think should really do it. I think you have the personality and endurance for it, GO FOR IT

[cheeseburger79]

Thanks for the encouragement Stacy! You Rock!!

[halo0073]

I've only ever been my own caregiver so I guess that's why I say I've never used anyone else up. Thank you for explaining further Lisa. The original post left out the relevant details of your own experience and just sounded like a general condemnation of anyone with the disease.

[quietguy]

As has been mentioned above, CK, you need to figure out that fine line between support and enabling when you are dealing with someone who will not treat or follow their treatment plan for whatever mental illness they have.

 

And only you can decide what level of support you can give physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually. It does not necessarily have to be all or nothing. But again you have to decide how much of the instability that comes from your friend not seeking or following treatment that you can handle. I am not saying you are his "caretaker" but "caretaker burn-out" is a very real issue. It sounds like you are stepping back for a bit and that is okay. Even front line combat troops get pulled back for R&R at times, right?

 

I am not a medical professional but I have certainly dealt with and helped others deal with these questions both with mental illness and addiction issues. There are many parallels between the two and sadly often some overlap with some individuals. I am not implying that it is so with your friend, just that there sometimes is.

 

Just know we support you and you have our best wishes.

[LadyVictoria]

Hats off to you CK. I can barely handle one man, I don't know how you deal with two.

[StacyK]

Hats off to you CK. I can barely handle one man, I don't know how you deal with two.

^ Yes this!!! So true.

[Cycle Kitten]

Hats off to you CK. I can barely handle one man, I don't know how you deal with two.

It's not easy, well, the hubby is pretty easy I guess that's helpful.

So the update: I'm currently at a hospital and have been here since early yesterday morning. The BF was in an accident. He will be ok but I've been camped in the ICU for two days. He's been in surgery now for 4 hrs and I'm losing my mind. This is not how I invisioned seeing him again. He hates this environment, they had to sedate/ intubate him for his own protection and the staff. He became lucid and ripped out all the hoses while in the MRI. I got to see him open his eyes before they took him for surgery. His mom and sister are here with me, first time meeting or talking to them. I think his mom was the magic that kept him reasonable for the 15 minutes we were able to see him awake. I don't know if he's going to be angry or grateful when he is truly coherent. It was the only way to get consent for treatment because he was trying to leave the hospital after being air lifted in. He would not have agreed to being here normally. I don't know about anyone else but 2016 has been a hell of a year for me and the people I love and I'm really over it.

[halo0073]

I'm so sorry CK. Sending prayers and healing vibes.

[LadyVictoria]

Oh no. So sorry to hear this. Maybe he can get the help he needs now?

[IndieAna]

Oh no, what an ordeal, CK. Sending healing vibes for him and strength for you.

[quietguy]

Prayers for your friend.

[Bella15]

Oh my gosh, CK.. Sending you lots of love and strength! Hope BF is well soon.

[reincarnated]

Hope it all turns out for the best, CK.

Love and light coming your way.

[johnsonlisa90012]

Prayers

[cheeseburger79]

Geez. Just seeing this. I'm sending prayers to you guys too. Hope it all works out.

[Cycle Kitten]

Thank you so much for the good vibes everyone. I just got home late last night and had my first sleep in two weeks. T has been absolutely terrible and I'm so very happy to be home but worried beyond belief for the BF.

 

It took 6 security guards to hold him down in the ER before they had decided to sedate him. My first few days in the hospital he was under, for his own safety and that of the staff. Then another few days of being a bit out of it, hostile and tethered down. His mom and sister were supportive and sweet the couple of days they stayed but haven't checked in since his release from the hospital the Friday before last. Sadly they even seem dismissive today when I contacted them with updates. Perhaps the whole lot of them are troubled.

 

I've spent the last 10 days as his nurse and most of it being met with hostility. My only goal was to get through it until his follow up yesterday. Aside from quite a bit of road rash he has a couple broken ribs, tore his tricep tendon in one arm and shattered his wrist in the other. He is very lucky to be alive (no helmet, a big gash in his head, no jacket/ gloves ) I'm sure I don't have to detail the level of care needed for someone who has no use of their arms. This did not go over well. He is also lucky that we had a friend to stay with 10 min from the hospital though he displayed no gratitude. He also had not slept since being under sedation all these days and I've had to witness behavior I can only compare to the stuff you see in freaky horror films and music videos. ( think strobe light style head shaking and rocking, manic fits and outbursts) When not making statements about leaving him on the side of the road and not wanting to live there were some moments of "I'm sorry" and lots of crying.

 

If I had a taser yesterday trying to get through his appointment I may have used it. He has at least three months of recovery before his next surgury and he is losing it. He stormed out of the dr office, and I found him sitting on a curb looking down on railroad tracks. He can eat and bathe now but can't work. I dropped him with his crew and he is headed to the other side of the country for the next few months, he is in their care now and I can only hope that he does as instructed. I talked with one of his bosses for hours and was told that he had been diagnosed bipolar long ago. I can't say for certain, not seeing medical records, it could be speculation but that's what was said. They are still willing to keep him on board and pay him so he should be counting his blessings instead of being verbally hostile toward everyone. I've done all I can so for now all I can do is be the voice on the other end when he needs to talk to someone.

 

I have been living in hospitals for the last 4+ months, my FIL had been trapped under a back hoe in early March. He is 80, broke 8 ribs, smashed his pelvis, lost a leg and while I was away his surgeons basically told him they are done with him, they won't do his final surgery so he can get a prosthesis. They said he will never walk again. It's night and day. My FIL's response to that info was standing up on the leg he has, which was also mangled and still broken, 5 times that day, saying screw you to his doctors. The BF thinks his life is over.

 

Perspective,...

[Bella15]

Oh, CK... what an ordeal! I am glad you are home and can rest for a little bit. You've done so much for him, and yes, the rest is up to him now. **Big HUGS**

[Black Cat]

Oh, Cycle Kitten, I've been wondering how you are. I'm sorry it's been such a struggle.