Scientific Questions

[Beccah]

My first question:

I tried a copulin formula around the same time I was ovulating. My reaction: very intense nausea. Is there any scientific basis for this?

[starlitegirl]

I think it's likely that the somewhat rancid aroma of EOW caused the effect and perhaps it was coupled with some other factor... many women do get very sensitive to aromas while they're pregnant. So perhaps there's a biological reason why you would be more sensitive to EOW when you ovulate. Perhaps it's along the lines of the intensity of EOW at that time had an effect similar to how I've heard gay men respond to women's pheromones (which is to say they don't like them at all though I've never experienced this myself - just read other women's experiences). Maybe biologically at that time it's in our nature to respond to male pheromones and more cops cause an aversion. That along with the aroma could have caused such a reaction.

[Potion Master]

Yes, some of the oldest and most respected pheromone research states that women react in a pretty wide arc to different pheromones depending upon where they are in their cycle. At one stage - turn on, at another stage - aversion. It's text book.

 

If I remember correctly, the research was about the effects of male pheros on women, but it makes sense that we would react accordingly to any pheromonal signals. For example - when a female is at her most fertile, being around "competition" might be distasteful, or at least annoying. It's possible that your reaction to the scent of copulins was as if coming from "competition". ???

[Beccah]

LOL. So as women. We're physically repulsed by competition during ovulation. Too funny. Thanks ladies!

Edited August 6, 2009 by Beccah1

[Potion Master]

Nesting instincts.

 

Have you never noticed that phenomenon? I've seen it in pregnant women a few times, and also women who were wanting to become pregnant.

 

They basically develop an intolerance for any other female in their home because they react like the other female is competition, even when the other female is, say, the husband's own sister - so it's not a logical conscious thing, it's purely chemical/hormonal.

[Ivy715]

I believe last night I had read an article on that It said during that time and in would depend on what your body is already producing,

So probably to much at that time,I haven't yet to run into that problem I should knock on wood

hugs

[Beccah]

Nesting instincts.

 

Have you never noticed that phenomenon? I've seen it in pregnant women a few times, and also women who were wanting to become pregnant.

 

They basically develop an intolerance for any other female in their home because they react like the other female is competition, even when the other female is, say, the husband's own sister - so it's not a logical conscious thing, it's purely chemical/hormonal.

 

 

That brings up a memory for me. I had my oldest @ 17. I didn't have any support. So I ended up in this this program. The Lighthouse, for pregnant women & mothers ages 16-24. So basically we were all either, prenatal, postpartum, or pmsing. In that enviroment, I have noticed that females develop a 'pack mentality' The alpha female will usually round up a click to gang up on the newest one. Which might be in part pheromonal?

[luna65]

I believe any social construct is inherently hierarchial unless the participants actively choose to conduct it in an egalitarian fashion. Our conditioning is such that hormones are not required, it makes itself evident in every medium (real life and online).

 

However, that is an interesting point...how our pheromones may influence our own behaviors within a social construct. We already know the kind of signals they can broadcast - either to ourselves or others - but how they interact in a group...I'm sure Ail has collected evidence in that regard.

[SWBookworm]

I believe any social construct is inherently hierarchial unless the participants actively choose to conduct it in an egalitarian fashion. Our conditioning is such that hormones are not required, it makes itself evident in every medium (real life and online).

 

However, that is an interesting point...how our pheromones may influence our own behaviors within a social construct. We already know the kind of signals they can broadcast - either to ourselves or others - but how they interact in a group...I'm sure Ail has collected evidence in that regard.

 

I've often wondered about the phenomenon where women living together (who are not on hormonal birth control) will begin to cycle together. I figure that they start cycling to the alpha female in the situation but don't know if any studies have been done on that.

[luna65]

Right...I seem to recall something about broadcasting chemical signatures which cause us to sync up...but here's the weird thing: I've experienced the sync (as I call it) with friends across the country, in some cases I've never even seen the other. I'd say it was biological coincidence except...numerous times? So there's a few factors at work, it seems.

[therapygirl]

I don't have but a minute and don't have the study at my fingertips, but if you google Astrid Jutte study, you'll find out about the syncing phenomenon

[luna65]

Oh she ran that one too? Ye gods she is awesome!

[SWBookworm]

I don't have but a minute and don't have the study at my fingertips, but if you google Astrid Jutte study, you'll find out about the syncing phenomenon

 

Very cool. I'll try to find it. It's funny Luna but I have synced with friends also but they are ones I lived with in college so I don't know if it's the same as you're experiencing.

[Potion Master]

I've often wondered about the phenomenon where women living together (who are not on hormonal birth control) will begin to cycle together. I figure that they start cycling to the alpha female in the situation but don't know if any studies have been done on that.

 

That's very interesting. So what if, say, ALL the girls in the group are Alphas?

 

Reason I bring this up...I was in an all female band for a decade. 5 girls. We toured for 9 months out of the year, shared a tour bus, usually could only afford one hotel room so slept two to a bed. When we weren't on the road, we still rehearsed 3 times per week, we were around each other constantly. My singer was my roomate for at least 5 years, and I lived with my bassist for a year too. And our periods NEVER synched up.

 

Our male support crew - roadies, sound men, etc, would joke - can't tell you how many times we heard that same "joke", "It must be HELL when they all get their periods at the same time". But it never actually happened.

 

So, we've got five chicks in a hard rock band - all pretty aggressive alpha females... do alpha females just REFUSE to be bullied into adjusting their cycles? And it's not as if we weren't close to each other emotionally as well. Our own joke was that the band lasted longer than most marriages we know.

 

But wait - I think I recall reading that the hormone DHEA (which supposedly has pheromonal effects) is responsible for the synching phenomenon. Perhaps it is whomever produces the most - which may not be the alpha female. I mean, don't alpha females usually have a little more testosterone in their chemistry? Along that line of thought, it might be the most "feminine" of the bunch that leads the pack in that regard.

 

:laughs quietly to self thinking about how UNgirly me band mates were:

[FAWN]

That's very interesting. So what if, say, ALL the girls in the group are Alphas?

 

Reason I bring this up...I was in an all female band for a decade. 5 girls. We toured for 9 months out of the year, shared a tour bus, usually could only afford one hotel room so slept two to a bed. When we weren't on the road, we still rehearsed 3 times per week, we were around each other constantly. My singer was my roomate for at least 5 years, and I lived with my bassist for a year too. And our periods NEVER synched up.

 

Our male support crew - roadies, sound men, etc, would joke - can't tell you how many times we heard that same "joke", "It must be HELL when they all get their periods at the same time". But it never actually happened.

 

So, we've got five chicks in a hard rock band - all pretty aggressive alpha females... do alpha females just REFUSE to be bullied into adjusting their cycles? And it's not as if we weren't close to each other emotionally as well. Our own joke was that the band lasted longer than most marriages we know.

 

But wait - I think I recall reading that the hormone DHEA (which supposedly has pheromonal effects) is responsible for the synching phenomenon. Perhaps it is whomever produces the most - which may not be the alpha female. I mean, don't alpha females usually have a little more testosterone in their chemistry? Along that line of thought, it might be the most "feminine" of the bunch that leads the pack in that regard.

 

:laughs quietly to self thinking about how UNgirly me band mates were:

 

That's interesting theory M, Sometimes my cycle synched w/ female roomates, sometimes not..I'm pretty much Alpha & so is my daughter and we have different cycles.

I saw you band's web site the other day, It took me back. My friends & I all dressed like that during that decade. It was fun to watch the video of your band and the different style's of hair & clothes of the time. I was just starting my career in hair design, and "big" hair was the "do" of the day..U Guys Rocked. :emot138:

[Beccah]

As far as the cycle thing goes. I have no research to back this only anectdote. Usually, when I am working w/ a group of women. they sync up to my cycle. I am the opposite of alpha. I will say it might be estrogen production that makes other women sync up. I had a friend, we were like peanut butter & jelly. She'd been thru cervical cancer & was in remission. For a time her doctor put her on birthcontrol to get her hormones back to normal. After we practically lived to gether for a couple months. She'd quit taking the BC, yet her period came back on it's own. She totally 'blamed' me, lol. Estrogen differs woman to woman. Physically you might be able to guestimate based on another females body fat ratio. Testosterone is integral to muscle mass( & sex drive). I have like the fattiest body type, & women usually sync to my cycle. So I assume I produce quite a bit of estrogen. The moon is also very influental over our cycles, so exposure to artificial light. Could be disruptive to our natural cycle, especially if you factor in BC.

Edited August 9, 2009 by Beccah1

[Beccah]

Okay I have a question. How big of a factor do pheromones play, in 'the honeymoon' phase of a relationship? How would one go about recapturing that phase, pheromonally? Or are there too many other factors that come into play?

[Potion Master]

Wow. Excellent observations, Beccah!

 

As far as the RAVENOUSLY sexual phase of a relationship, it's biologically wired into our "purpose" of perpetuating the species.

 

I'll have to go into this further later, in another post, but this is a phenom I have studied for decades. I have answers for this part of the discussion, but not time to have fun with the discussion now - give me a few days and we'll get back to it.

 

xoxoxoxoxox

[Rosebud]

The below quote is from this old blog(?)... Unfortunately the author doesn't give you the references or I could have gotten the actual articles.

 

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/5...-to-synchronize

 

"Synchronous menstruation has been observed among mothers, sisters, and daughters who live together, and sometimes among women who simply work together. McClintock tells of seven female lifeguards who started out one summer with widely scattered periods. Three months later they were all menstruating within four days of one another.

 

A study of 135 residents of a women's college dorm confirmed the effect. Most of the cycle shifting occurred within the first four months and was usually complete after seven months. Fortunately for the dorm's plumbing, the whole building didn't synchronize, just roommates and close friends. As often as not, the women were unaware of what had happened. Later research has suggested that synchrony is caused by some sort of scent cue, or pheromone.

 

Scientists at the Sonoma State Hospital Brain Behavior Research Center in California identified several women who were believed to be menstrual pacesetters--they made other women conform to their cycles. The scientists placed cotton pads under the dominant women's arms for a day, and then wiped the pads on the upper lips of five female subjects three times a week. (One wonders how much the subjects got paid for this.) Within five months, four of the recipients were menstruating at the same time as their donors.

 

Interestingly, men also have an effect on women's menstrual cycles--and not just because they make women pregnant. Women who associate with males frequently find that their periods become shorter and more regular. One woman told McClintock that she had a six-month cycle length until she began hanging out with guys, at which point her periods began occurring every 4.5 weeks. When she resumed her solitary ways, her cycle lengthened again. Another round of cotton pad experiments, this time using males as donors, confirmed this. Having sex with a man at least once a week will also do the trick."

[SWBookworm]

This is very interesting, especially when factoring in both M's and Beccah's experiences. Maybe it is the 'most girly/estrogen laden' female that causes the synch.

Edited August 14, 2009 by SWBookworm

[Ivy715]

Rosebud,

I have always hung out with the guys rather then females even to this day and It hasn't made my period shorter,and now having 2 a month

So I would have to disagree with that lady.

hugs

[Beccah]

Rosebud,

I have always hung out with the guys rather then females even to this day and It hasn't made my period shorter,and now having 2 a month

So I would have to disagree with that lady.

hugs

 

 

I think that study didn't factor in endometriosis, sweety.

[Beccah]

Quick question: I'm noticing w/ cops usage. I'm getting an increase in breast size. Especially, around my woman times. I am definitely not complaining. It's about comparable to the increase I get when I drink soy milk. I'm off soy, this is the only thing I'm doing different. Anyone else experiencing this? Is there even a scientific basis for this?

[coffeemama]

I know my breast size fluctuates during my cycle, but I experienced this before my cops usage started.

[Potion Master]

Doesn't everyone get an increase in breast size before their periods?

[esmeralda]

Doesn't everyone get an increase in breast size before their periods?

 

omg...I never knew that!!! lol, maybe I didn't notice it

[djacquelynstew]

Doesn't everyone get an increase in breast size before their periods?

 

 

I know that I do get an increase before my period

[Beccah]

Yeah we do get an increase. I noticed I'm getting a bigger boost than usual. I am not complaining! The TT swiped some LAM before his weight lifting contest. He did really well on his lift. Now if only the contest had been run better......

[Isa]

Synch. Not for me. Stress smacks my cycle around like a ping pong ball. Plus the duration of (used to be) 10+ days meant that the numbers never crunched that way. Although...I have a theory that the pheros of a cycle can trigger one.

 

Phero boobies. I can almost see the email spam now... LOL!

[Beccah]

Synch. Not for me. Stress smacks my cycle around like a ping pong ball. Plus the duration of (used to be) 10+ days meant that the numbers never crunched that way. Although...I have a theory that the pheros of a cycle can trigger one.

 

Phero boobies. I can almost see the email spam now... LOL!

 

It's very dificult to mess w/ my cycle due to TT being a weightlifter. I knew I was pregnant the first day I missed my friend.

[Beccah]

In explainig the different pheromone blends to my husband. He was interested in a pheromone blend, "because it had the most stuff". Being that it was a blend that would most likely make him more aggressive. I steered him toward a more peaceful blend. My exact explantion was that each pheromone is like a word & the blends are like paragraph. So I was just wondering if pheromones send out chemical auras such as charisma or youth. Are there any pheromones that send out negative 'vibes'. You know when you've ever been around somebody & you just didn't like their energy. I've even experianced headaches before, & they weren't wearing any noticeable fragrance. -Be blessed, Beccah-

[Shelly B]

In explainig the different pheromone blends to my husband. He was interested in a pheromone blend, "because it had the most stuff". Being that it was a blend that would most likely make him more aggressive. I steered him toward a more peaceful blend. My exact explantion was that each pheromone is like a word & the blends are like paragraph. So I was just wondering if pheromones send out chemical auras such as charisma or youth. Are there any pheromones that send out negative 'vibes'. You know when you've ever been around somebody & you just didn't like their energy. I've even experianced headaches before, & they weren't wearing any noticeable fragrance. -Be blessed, Beccah-

 

well I don't think it's a negative vibes per se - but how it is received. Example - EST - Ail loves it because it turns her Alpha Male into a loving cuddlebunny. In larger doses - it makes me a whining fussy emotional mess - just like I was in both pregnancies.

 

The people who were happy and chipper during pregnancy will probably love EST - and those of us who HATED being pregnant - probably not so much.

 

I like it fine in a blend - generally when there is higher amounts of Anol to pick me up.

Edited September 26, 2009 by Shelly B

[Beccah]

name='Shelly B' date='Sep 26 2009, 06:22 AM' post='72873']

and those of us who HATED being pregnant - probably not so much.

 

Shelly B. hated being pregnant? Iz prolly cuz Mr.Shelly couldn't handle preggo Shelly's sex drive. I iz picturing Shelly: Give me sex & Honey!!!!!!

[Shelly B]

name='Shelly B' date='Sep 26 2009, 06:22 AM' post='72873']

 

 

Shelly B. hated being pregnant? Iz prolly cuz Mr.Shelly couldn't handle preggo Shelly's sex drive. I iz picturing Shelly: Give me sex & Honey!!!!!!

 

ummmm - good guess but wrong. Severe Hyper-emesis (uncontrollable vomiting and nausea) both pregnancies - through month 6. Then preterm contractions - month 6 to delivery - which meant 8 weeks of bed rest on 1 of the 2. Oh - and pregnancy caused heart arrythmias.

 

Pregnancy for me was one miserable slog from vomiting on myself, in meetings, total abject misery from the heart arrythmias and the vomit comet. My very beloved OB - who had 6 kids of his own - held my hand the day after my last child was born - I am not normally one who throws in the towel - but in your instance - I am glad you aren't having anymore. I don't think you could do this again.

 

After pregnancy 1 - Mr. Shelly wanted to call it good and stop with a singleton. I wanted 1 more. I wouldn't give that child up for anything - but you couldn't pay me a million bucks to do that again. As crappy as pregnancy 1 was - pregnancy 2 was way, way worse.

 

In all seriousness - it's probably why I have such a negative response to EST.

[Beccah]

Yeesh Shelly, I'd say you're a trouper for going thru it more than once. My first pregnancy I went thru the morning, noon, & night sic...I mean hyperemesis. Thats the only thing that went wrong. Everything else was perfect! Except that my labor went too fast for any pain meds! I was seventeen though. Notice my kids are 10 & 2! My second pregnancy I didn't really even have any morning sickness. & my second O.B. doctor talked me into an epidural. I wasn't that interested in one initially. Due to so many horror stories! After having went natural & having had the epidural. If any doctor ever suggests 'natural'(i.e. modern day torture) to me again. They're getting punched in the face. So I actually don't get that strongly affected by Est.. Being that I don't really have any strong feelings about pregnancy either. Est. just makes me able to be affectionate w/ people. Which is hard for me. -Be blessed, Beccah-

[luna65]

My exact explantion was that each pheromone is like a word & the blends are like paragraph. So I was just wondering if pheromones send out chemical auras such as charisma or youth. Are there any pheromones that send out negative 'vibes'.

Well...my analogy would be music. You can experience one note and enjoy that note, or you can combine notes into a chord and experience the enjoyment in a different way.

 

Androstenol is the pheromone which most promotes what you're asking about in terms of charisma and youthfulness. For men, a mix of a-nol and beta-nol generally has the best results. Androstenone is the most negative one, but it can be steered with other pheromones to promote the sexual aspect and tone down the irritability/aggression. Androsterone is the alpha male aura without the aggression.

Edited September 26, 2009 by luna65

[Beccah]

name='luna65' date='Sep 26 2009, 09:47 AM' post='72900']

Well...my analogy would be music. You can experience one note and enjoy that note, or you can combine notes into a chord and experience the enjoyment in a different way.

That is a clearer way to convey my thoughts on thoughts on the subject.Thanx Luna.

 

Androstenone is the most negative one

Could be what was giving me the headache,lol.

-Be blessed,Beccah-