Pheromone Philosophy?

[Jones]

The longer I read on the subject, the more I am left with the impression that the commercial philosophy behind pheromone usage (as it pertains to attractants) is definitely "one size fits all."

 

Specifically, it seems as though every company out there who is pushing any sort of "magic" pheromone bullet seems fixated upon Androstenone.

 

I wonder if this is the best and highest use of one's efforts?

 

Don't get me wrong, I like Androstenone as much as the next guy. For example, when I wear Aqua Vitae, I walk down the street like I'm back in my Werewolf days, thinking "I just luuuv bein' me."

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1e5h9YSe_k

 

However, beyond post-adolescence, there's more to courtship and romance than howling, sweaty displays of manhood, followed by much ripping & tearing (well...most of the time >:-) ).

 

From what [very little] I know about human psychology and interpersonal relationships, I would think that A-Androsterone, B-Androstenol, and DHEAS would be a better foundation upon which to build an attractant... with Androstenone there, but lurking in the background.

 

That's one of the reasons why SS4M and <3 Throb are so intriguing to me (on a side note, I can attest to the effectiveness of SS4m around the house).

 

Am I on the right track? Am I over-thinking it? or is the mainstream correct, and does Androstenone remain the star player in most commercial products because it belongs at the top?

[halo0073]

Honestly I think there are a variety of products that are needed for either sex. That's what I love about LP, there are sooo many blends and you can really tailor your phero wardrobe to match your needs. I don't know that much about none heavy blends because I am a girl, but it does seem like none and/or rone are in most male blends. Personally I don't want to see B-nol in all the attractant type mixes. I like to use that one in measured doses and for certain situations. I think DHEAS is underused at this point, but will surely be included in more blends soon. The research and testing on some of these molecules is a lot more recent than some of the more established ones. Just think how many more there will be to play with in 10 years. And I think also the molecules that get the most consistent "bigger" results are always going to be used more.

[Beccah]

Welcome to LP Jones

Yup, I think you're on to something. I would think men would be interested in blends for new TGs that won't risk aggravating her during the wrong time of her cycle, but it does seem like a lot retailers pushing the 'none heavy blends aren't interested in factoring th ewhole picture into their products' usage, imo. Sorry, I hope that my commentary wasn't completely off-topic.

[Potion Master]

I've been trying my best to offer blends that are more subtle and situational than the basic male "one night stand" blends that the industry was birthed on. I think you're right, Jones. Most of the commercial industry is geared in this fashion, because the bulk of the profit is to be had with this purpose and marketing strategy in mind. It's only those who become more sophisticated and interested in the other possibilities that pheromones can offer, that seek and learn and are interested in trying more than the basic rone/none blends. You're just a more evolved being, so you question and seek. Bravo.

[luna65]

or is the mainstream correct

Never.

But as Mara points out, the marketing strategy is appealing both to the male ego and male insecurity.

[Jones]

lol... "evolved" is being kind. Though I do aspire to being what we call down here, a Renaissance Redneck ;-)

 

But seriously, I think age has crept up on me, and I have 20/20 hindsight.

 

I remember as a child (from eight or ten, through 14 or 15 y/o), noticing that women thought my father was incredibly sexy. I couldn't get my mind wrapped around the concept... "my dad?!?... sexy?!?... ewwww!" He was an average, middle-aged man with thinning hair, and a limp that came from wearing an artificial leg (about 6" below his right knee). Though he was friendly, soft-spoken, kind, gentle, rugged, and very manly.

 

People felt comfortable around him, and would talk incessantly, telling him things that I'm sure he wished they'd kept to themselves (this particular trait, he passed on to me... ack!).

 

I wonder if he wasn't blessed with an abundance of that "Alpha male protector" vibe.

 

My mental image of Androstenone is a rutting animal with a singular motive, yet without aim, direction, or conscience. Much less the ability for long-term planning.

 

I'm absolutely positive that Androstenone works, and works well (regularly) on a minority of the female of our species. But even if I were single, that particular segment would not be my target market (too much "baggage").

 

That is not to say that it [Androstenone] doesn't have a place... it most certainly does; just not at the head of the table. I'd call him the "Mr Hyde" that only comes out after the kids are in bed. lol.

 

Going back to SS4M and <3 Throb, the ingredients (aside from copulins) are nearly identical, but in slightly different ratios. What was the thinking behind the different mixes? (I'm looking at my rapidly-dwindling supply of each, and trying to decide which one to get next in a big bottle).

 

Sorry to ramble on so.

Ron

[Jones]

Welcome to LP Jones

Yup, I think you're on to something. I would think men would be interested in blends for new TGs that won't risk aggravating her during the wrong time of her cycle, but it does seem like a lot retailers pushing the 'none heavy blends aren't interested in factoring th ewhole picture into their products' usage, imo. Sorry, I hope that my commentary wasn't completely off-topic.

What is a "TG?" And... yep, I ordered some TeddyMan 2 for experimenting next time the moon is full.

 

It's not at all off topic. From meaningless soundbytes in political ads, to Axe commercials... it's easier to sell the fantasy, than to explain the reality.

[Jones]

Honestly I think there are a variety of products that are needed for either sex. That's what I love about LP, there are sooo many blends and you can really tailor your phero wardrobe to match your needs. I don't know that much about none heavy blends because I am a girl, but it does seem like none and/or rone are in most male blends. Personally I don't want to see B-nol in all the attractant type mixes. I like to use that one in measured doses and for certain situations. I think DHEAS is underused at this point, but will surely be included in more blends soon. The research and testing on some of these molecules is a lot more recent than some of the more established ones. Just think how many more there will be to play with in 10 years. And I think also the molecules that get the most consistent "bigger" results are always going to be used more.

I sure hope we don't actually "need" all these phero's (bottled) ;-) We've been doing ok for thousands of years. While I'm serious about scents, phero's are more a playful hobbyist sort of activity. If I ever get to where I NEED them, it's time to put me in diapers and planning to pull the plug lol.

 

I like hearing about the research and testing (NOT the whole paper... just the abstracts, please ).

[luna65]

Going back to SS4M and

In my estimation (Mara of course will deliver the actual braintrust concepts):

SS4M is a charismatic bad boy...like you know he's a rogue but he's a charming attractive dazzling kind of rogue. SS4M has that "feel good" core to it that gets the XXs high.

 

Desire is multi-faceted: we desire the partner we love (who embodies any number of qualities), and we desire those we lust after, maybe for one quality, maybe several. So these mixes are that enhancement of the slavering hormonal fog reaction engendered by lust.

Edited January 20, 2012 by luna65

[Potion Master]

Going back to SS4M and

 

Well, just like with music...you've only got so many notes to work with, but they can be re-arranged to form a multitude of different melodies.

 

In balancing the two blends differently, you really do get quite a different end effect. What we were going for with Heart Throb actually was closer to the appeal of the 'one night stand' blends, but hopefully with a bit more sophistication. Besides the 'bad boy' aspect of copulins, there's a LOT more DHEAS in this blend, which adds an "excitement" aspect. It is a lively, stimulating energizer, and lends the "butterfly in the tummy" feeling. It's also a little more rone/none heavy than SS4M and has an extra splash of Alpha-Nol.

 

They are both awesome blends, but Heart Throb I guess is geared a little more towards emulating youthful enthusiasm and excitement. LOL, the label is a decent indicator of the kind of appeal we were going for.

[MarkAM]

I am very new to this, but reading the "philosophy" behind them, I didn't look for them for the "one night stand" (never had them, never will), but looking for a way to be more "me". Sometimes you need a push in one direction or another or need a bit of help with a sticky problem (going back to my favorite so far...Shark Whisperer). I work in a very high stress environment and sometimes people just need to be nudged a little bit to get over egos or whatever and work together or that initial WTF instinct needs to be mellowed. I got one of the trial packs that Mara and Catherine put together for me and had one of the most successful conferences to date for me, work wise. Came back to trouble brewing and, based on their advice, wore Shark Whisperer in order to help smooth feathers and work out problems that had occurred while I was gone.

 

I will try some of the more "date night" scents and pheromones when I get the chance. One question that struck me (and maybe I'm being too simplistic), but when you are in a relationship it is just plain fun to experiment with pheromones, but is it a type of manipulation or cheating the system if you are trying to get someone interested or just changing the odds? I haven't quite worked that out in my head, yet.

[luna65]

I suppose it depends on whether you consider social engineer wrong a priori...pheromones are just one method, after all, people use so many different things to manipulate a situation in order to get what they want. I believe social engineering which results in parity is at least fair: when you give as much as you get. You attract someone you desire, but you support that attraction with all the reasons why you desire them: that you are a giving caring person, and so on. Or, at the very least, you provide them good sex (in exchange for the attraction you have engendered in them). On the other hand, if you use pheromones to get what you want, but you don't give anything in return, well, that would be cheating the system, IMO.

[Jones]

I am very new to this, but reading the "philosophy" behind them, I didn't look for them for the "one night stand" (never had them, never will), but looking for a way to be more "me". Sometimes you need a push in one direction or another or need a bit of help with a sticky problem (going back to my favorite so far...Shark Whisperer). I work in a very high stress environment and sometimes people just need to be nudged a little bit to get over egos or whatever and work together or that initial WTF instinct needs to be mellowed. I got one of the trial packs that Mara and Catherine put together for me and had one of the most successful conferences to date for me, work wise. Came back to trouble brewing and, based on their advice, wore Shark Whisperer in order to help smooth feathers and work out problems that had occurred while I was gone.

I'm looking forward to trying some of the socials myself. But my personality is friendly, outgoing, and an intent listener; and I was raised to be as polite and respectful towards peers and subordinates (During my time in the military, I validated the effectiveness of this leadership style in a "super-high Y" atmosphere (short version: leadership through demonstration, encouragement, and praise is [i believe] more effective, than leadership by diktat).

 

So, I'd have to actively seek out hostile environments within which to test the socials (though I've got some WeaponX and TeddyMan2 inbound just for fun).

 

I will try some of the more "date night" scents and pheromones when I get the chance. One question that struck me (and maybe I'm being too simplistic), but when you are in a relationship it is just plain fun to experiment with pheromones, but is it a type of manipulation or cheating the system if you are trying to get someone interested or just changing the odds? I haven't quite worked that out in my head, yet.

 

The very fact that women produce copulins is cheating the system lol... (in my best Rod Serling voice) Picture if you will: a man, being led by the nose....

 

I would venture to guess, that this is nature's way of empowering, (and possibly protecting) the [physically] weaker sex.

 

If there really existed a clear-cut, no BS way to "cheat the system" as a man, and gain an advantage over women in the same fashion that women can use chemicals to gain an advantage over men... The inventor and marketer of that formula would (if they were smart) be wealthy beyond their wildest dreams before you could say "Bill Gates."

 

As it is, (in my opinion) synthetic pheromones provide men with a way to stand out a bit from the crowd, and maybe "steer" the action just a bit. But it still comes down to your ability to be comfortable in your own skin, confident in yourself, and conversant with those around you.

 

My Dad used to tell me "Ron son, girls are like buses. If you miss one, the next one will be along in about 15 minutes." So, don't be a doormat. Have your own life. But do be a good listener. Make her laugh, and when you find the right one... buy her chairs.

 

ASIDE

Copulins are so powerful, and raise men's testosterone level so rapidly, that I've been tempted to order a small vial of some unscented cops in the strongest concentration I can find in order to dab a little on my upper lip about half an hour before my workout.... It's certainly worth a try. Along those same lines, it is my understanding that dosing ones self with Androstenone on a regular basis may very well cause your body to begin producing more testosterone on its own in order to adapt to the new "high testosterone environment." So, perhaps I'd do well to experiment with 50% cops and 50% Androstenone in an oil base for dabbing under my nose???

/ASIDE

[Jones]

SS4M is a charismatic bad boy...like you know he's a rogue but he's a charming attractive dazzling kind of rogue. SS4M has that "feel good" core to it that gets the XXs high.

<3throb is a tail twitcher, so to speak. The bad boy which some of us are hardwired to desire and yet not entirely dark alleyway kind of bad. More like the smirking smoldering kind of bad boy. <3throb is like one of my bad boy characters come to life, pheromone-wise.

 

In balancing the two blends differently, you really do get quite a different end effect. What we were going for with Heart Throb actually was closer to the appeal of the 'one night stand' blends, but hopefully with a bit more sophistication. Besides the 'bad boy' aspect of copulins, there's a LOT more DHEAS in this blend, which adds an "excitement" aspect. It is a lively, stimulating energizer, and lends the "butterfly in the tummy" feeling. It's also a little more rone/none heavy than SS4M and has an extra splash of Alpha-Nol.

 

 

Awww man... now I'm gonna have to get one of each

[Potion Master]

ASIDE

Copulins are so powerful, and raise men's testosterone level so rapidly, that I've been tempted to order a small vial of some unscented cops in the strongest concentration I can find in order to dab a little on my upper lip about half an hour before my workout.... It's certainly worth a try. Along those same lines, it is my understanding that dosing ones self with Androstenone on a regular basis may very well cause your body to begin producing more testosterone on its own in order to adapt to the new "high testosterone environment." So, perhaps I'd do well to experiment with 50% cops and 50% Androstenone in an oil base for dabbing under my nose???

/ASIDE

 

JONES! THIS is exactly what synthetic copulins were originally produced for! They were originally crafted as an attempt to replace steroid use for body builders - a safer and more natural alternative. Intended to be applied under the nose just as you imagine. But it didn't work. They found that without a "target female" involved, that men's testosterone levels did not rise as they hoped they would. The idea to use copulins as a perfume additive was a second thought. 'What do we do with all this stinky stuff now?' It really was an epiphany to save a failed experiment, and turned into a success in the end. You are quite perceptive in your reasoning and instincts. Let us know if you try this combo and how it works for you!

 

ETA: Wait, UNscented cops? The efficacy of these is considered somewhat of a myth. But I am definitely interested to hear if your experiences prove otherwise.

[Potion Master]

Welcome, MarkAM!

 

As to your Qs, I am just going to say to Luna's response.

 

[Jones]

ETA: Wait, UNscented cops? The efficacy of these is considered somewhat of a myth. But I am definitely interested to hear if your experiences prove otherwise.

When I said "unscented cops," I meant without any added perfume. Having tried Heart Throb, I expect it to smell "off" (but presumably much stronger).

[luna65]

If there really existed a clear-cut, no BS way to "cheat the system" as a man, and gain an advantage over women in the same fashion that women can use chemicals to gain an advantage over men... The inventor and marketer of that formula would (if they were smart) be wealthy beyond their wildest dreams before you could say "Bill Gates."

Let me put it this way: in a world of male hegemony, I'd say one advantage is entirely fair.

[xev]

They found that without a "target female" involved, that men's testosterone levels did not rise as they hoped they would.

 

Yes, this is true -- I've read the original research papers.

 

Copulins alone do not raise a man's testosterone.

 

Copulins + female human = elevated testosterone

 

Let me put it this way: in a world of male hegemony, I'd say one advantage is entirely fair.

 

Indeed :-)

Edited January 20, 2012 by xev

[MarkAM]

 

Yes, this is true -- I've read the original research papers.

 

Copulins alone do not raise a man's testosterone.

 

Copulins + female human = elevated testosterone

 

 

WHAT?!?! You mean men need women? Lol...I'm sure that some guys will never figure that one out. I'm glad I did years ago. That's one thing that makes life fun. It is good to see that there are some sites you can go to where revelations like that are not really revelations, but just the standard matter of course. I think that scents help to put the "fun" into "functional". Most people want to smell/be attractive and perfumes are a socially acceptable way of doing so. Adding "secret ingredients" to them to make the people you want to attract pay attention is an added bonus.

 

I think I need to try some of the ones that have been suggested...hmmm...another batch of samples need to be ordered, I think.

[tyvey]

Let me put it this way: in a world of male hegemony, I'd say one advantage is entirely fair.

I disagree that it's fair, but it's a start in the right direction

[Beccah]

My Dad used to tell me "Ron son, girls are like buses. If you miss one, the next one will be along in about 15 minutes."

That was the best advice that my grandma ever gave me about men

TG-Target guy/girl

Too bad you couldn't talk wifey into putting on some cops for you before you get ready to go to gym, lol.

On Throb; I think it's a fun one for long term couples to us. It's like the old game of "pretending you don't know each other & meeting up in a bar", I guess. I like it on my SO.

[Calii]

I suppose it depends on whether you consider social engineer wrong a priori...pheromones are just one method, after all, people use so many different things to manipulate a situation in order to get what they want. I believe social engineering which results in parity is at least fair: when you give as much as you get. You attract someone you desire, but you support that attraction with all the reasons why you desire them: that you are a giving caring person, and so on. Or, at the very least, you provide them good sex (in exchange for the attraction you have engendered in them). On the other hand, if you use pheromones to get what you want, but you don't give anything in return, well, that would be cheating the system, IMO.

 

Thank you Luna for saying this better than I ever could

 

[Jones]

That was the best advice that my grandma ever gave me about men

TG-Target guy/girl

Too bad you couldn't talk wifey into putting on some cops for you before you get ready to go to gym, lol.

On Throb; I think it's a fun one for long term couples to us. It's like the old game of "pretending you don't know each other & meeting up in a bar", I guess. I like it on my SO.

ROFL... I like the way you're thinkin'

 

Yep... sometimes she leaves a $20 on the nightstand for me ;-)

[Jones]

Let me put it this way: in a world of male hegemony, I'd say one advantage is entirely fair.

I'd say another huge advantage is the ability to multitask effectively. Combined with the ability to manipulate a man, these psychological advantages can be used to devastating advantage... for good, or not so good purposes & results.

 

*NO, manipulation is not a bad thing. The word has gotten a bad rap (worse even than "propaganda"), but it is neither 'good' nor 'bad.' It just IS. Being manipulative does not make one Lady Macbeth. Any smart mother will manipulate her children (when necessary) into doing completely healthy things like... eating their spinach, cleaning their room, etc, etc, ad nauseum.

[luna65]

*NO, manipulation is not a bad thing. The word has gotten a bad rap (worse even than "propaganda"), but it is neither 'good' nor 'bad.' It just IS. Being manipulative does not make one Lady Macbeth.

I would say it depends upon the context. The word does have a "bad" definition and a "neutral" definition.

 

Any smart mother will manipulate her children (when necessary) into doing completely healthy things like... eating their spinach, cleaning their room, etc, etc, ad nauseum.

That's called "nurturing," actually. Edited January 22, 2012 by luna65

[MarkAM]

Gee...and my kids just call me mean, not nurturing. I hadn't actually thought of it in those terms. You are right, manipulation has received a bad rap. I don't think that I would intentionally manipulate a person for evil intent...I try to keep my kids on the straight and narrow, but it isn't always easy for a single father. If you look at it that way, I'm constantly manipulating them to try and get them to understand how things really work and how to better interact with society as a whole.

 

So, when is someone going to make a "child control" pheromone? I bet that would make someone a fortune (and very popular with parents).

[luna65]

If you look at it that way, I'm constantly manipulating them to try and get them to understand how things really work and how to better interact with society as a whole.

Again, this is nurturing - and your responsibility as a parent - not manipulation. As a parent myself I feel wholly secure in this definition.

(Although if one were to ascribe a negative term, "indoctrination" is one which tends to be utilized.)

[ListenToMinh]

Reviving this older thread.

 

Standing among the alchemists who prefer using pheromones for more sophisticated executions, I don't use it as often now than I previously did.

 

How has everyone dealt with the stigmatism enforced sometimes? I don't necessarily feel I need to hide my usage to my friends but,

 

I've always run it parallel, to how people who have been accused of, Witchcraft, Sorcery, and Ethereal arts, must of felt when they were persecuted.

 

Anyone with personal experience on this would be able to chime in?

 

The moment of having felt misunderstand, or being confronted about their pheromone use?

[Maroon]

Interesting thought, Minh, but I wouldn't say there's a stigma that comes with it. I think it's just one way of making yourself a little more attractive, no different than make-up or a haircut that suits you. It makes you feel better about yourself. And as far as relationships go, no one will fall in love with you just because of a phero or cops you are wearing. If there is no interest to begin with, a phero won't change that. I don't deny that they can be powerful, but they won't tie someone to you who doesnt want to be with you. And if you use social pheros to lighten the mood and make people feel comfortable, where's the harm in that?

People have all kinds of surgery to be more attractive. If wearing a phero gives you a little more confidence, that's a blessing in itself.

I don't tell my friends about this fantastic site here because they have never had much interest in all the stuff I wanted to try. If my friends or family found out they would just roll their eyes and say, Oh, you really believe that works? You're just so gullible!

Now if someone is jealous of you anyway they might accuse you of trying to be manipulative. I dont know if anybody ever employed pheros to try and steal some other person's SO, but again: a phero alone wont do the trick...

[StacyK]

Lol. no I don't see it in comparison to Salem in the sense of being labeled. Firstly Pheromones and Hormones exist, most people have enough general knowledge to know that. The controversy does still exist in the mind of those more skeptical of their effectiveness for "cosmetic use " or more specifically "social engineering". Using pheros in this manner, while I can attest to varying phero effectiveness, that's still not considered empirical evidence. While there are people who consider it "snake oil", I've never really seen any evidence of someone seeing it as a social stigma.

That said, I will admit myself that originally I was "turned off" to the concept of commercial OTC pheros in the sense that the business appeared to lie solely in the hands of cheesy purveyors who provided very little info on their product.

 

As far as who knows I use pheros.. there's a whole other thread on that with lots of interesting answers. So check it out "Who Knows You're Using Pheros? in this forum. I might make for good additional reading,

Edited May 11, 2014 by StacyK