Mrschrissyrez Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I really love this one. It's a sweet almost tart Rasberry with yummy honey and a warmth behind that. I'm guessing Fig is the warmth. After a couple hours the Rasberry fades and the honey/vanilla/fig take over. Love, love, love!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueBear Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 OMG, LV, that picture...I would do bad, bad things to him. I prefer the buzz cut he sported in Season 1 of The Tudors, though... Sorry. Back to Torrid Sorcery!! I wore this to the gym this evening because I could have sworn someone mentioned that BI helped them with workouts. So i loaded up and went to workout. The guys that work out that time of evening are usually lifting weights, so I figured I wouldn't have to worry about any BI craziness. WRONG!!!!!!!!!! I walked past the ellipticals to the treadmill. There was a lady working out on one. She stopped and stared at me for a moment and went on with her workout...all the while staring. Then she got off the elliptical and got on the treadmill facing me and was doing this weird eye contact thing. I was uncomfortable so I switched to a different treadmill. she then switched to the bicycle behind me. I could see her reflection in the window just staring at me while she rode the bike real slow. I finally opted to get off the treadmill and went lifted weights in the corner until she left. This was easily the most sexually charged hit I've ever gotten and from another woman! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeriendaTime Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 ^^ LOL! Yeah, I think the body heat from exercising throws the phero out there! I get approached a lot more while exercising with BI on....no make up looking sweaty and tomato faced. Did BI increase your stamina a bit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dolphindolls2 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Oh crap I need to score a bottle of this.... I want to work out at the gym and have the guys take a look OMG, LV, that picture...I would do bad, bad things to him. I prefer the buzz cut he sported in Season 1 of The Tudors, though... Sorry. Back to Torrid Sorcery!! I wore this to the gym this evening because I could have sworn someone mentioned that BI helped them with workouts. So i loaded up and went to workout. The guys that work out that time of evening are usually lifting weights, so I figured I wouldn't have to worry about any BI craziness. WRONG!!!!!!!!!! I walked past the ellipticals to the treadmill. There was a lady working out on one. She stopped and stared at me for a moment and went on with her workout...all the while staring. Then she got off the elliptical and got on the treadmill facing me and was doing this weird eye contact thing. I was uncomfortable so I switched to a different treadmill. she then switched to the bicycle behind me. I could see her reflection in the window just staring at me while she rode the bike real slow. I finally opted to get off the treadmill and went lifted weights in the corner until she left. This was easily the most sexually charged hit I've ever gotten and from another woman! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueBear Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 ^^ LOL! Yeah, I think the body heat from exercising throws the phero out there! I get approached a lot more while exercising with BI on....no make up looking sweaty and tomato faced. Did BI increase your stamina a bit? Hard to say since I couldn't work out as steadily as I normally do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calii Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 She stopped and stared at me for a moment and went on with her workout...all the while staring. Then she got off the elliptical and got on the treadmill facing me and was doing this weird eye contact thing. I was uncomfortable so I switched to a different treadmill. she then switched to the bicycle behind me. I could see her reflection in the window just staring at me while she rode the bike real slow. I finally opted to get off the treadmill and went lifted weights in the corner until she left. This was easily the most sexually charged hit I've ever gotten and from another woman! Just saw this! ... whew,now that is a *hit* ...sorry you were made uncomfortable,but in print it sure sounds sexy huh or could be the Cat's Eye & SLF I'm wearing now...hee,with leftover La Femme from Goddess of the Blue Moon & Pouncing Potion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbla Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 You wenches talked me into it. I don't even care for the Blatant Invitation phero but that scent sounds to die for! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowflake Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Unfortunately, I missed this out. Will there be a chance to get a rebrew? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeriendaTime Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 (edited) ^ It has been rebrewed. There are only 6 bottles left! Like JustDucky noted, this smells like hawaiian punch! The hawaiian punch goes away after a few minutes and then fruit...but warm fruit. I can't identify what KIND of fruit..maybe fig? I don't know what figs smell like. It smells pretty nice. After about 30 minutes I could smell the cops in this. But cops really seem to cling HARD and amp on my skin for some reason. Does anyone else get this? Not the CHEESY smell but some kind of musky vag smell covered in perfume that I get in EVERYTHING with cops in it...except OCCO SLF.. *sighhh* But I got the musky vag smell much quicker than I do with other perfumes with cops. Edited September 2, 2012 by MeriendaTime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowflake Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 ^ It has been rebrewed. There are only 6 bottles left! Oops, I didn't know that. I had checked the trials and there were none left ... Yeah, now I found the 6 full bottles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eggers Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 ^ It has been rebrewed. There are only 6 bottles left! Like JustDucky noted, this smells like hawaiian punch! The hawaiian punch goes away after a few minutes and then fruit...but warm fruit. I can't identify what KIND of fruit..maybe fig? I don't know what figs smell like. It smells pretty nice. After about 30 minutes I could smell the cops in this. But cops really seem to cling HARD and amp on my skin for some reason. Does anyone else get this? Not the CHEESY smell but some kind of musky vag smell covered in perfume that I get in EVERYTHING with cops in it...except OCCO SLF.. *sighhh* But I got the musky vag smell much quicker than I do with other perfumes with cops. MT, I wonder if it's simply that *you* can smell the cops in your perfumes, and not necessarily other people? I mean, I just wonder if it's your nose, and not your skin turning the perfume? Is there anyone you could ask? I did notice that Torrid Sorcery changed a lot after I applied it. At first it was all lovely and fruit punch-y, then the perfume seemed to become very "thin", and it smelled a bit odd. I didn't interpret the smell as a coppy kind of smell. I asked BF if the perfume still smelled good on me, (he has no idea what cops are, or what they do - he isn't aware that I'm wearing pheros of any kind), and he said it smelled awesome. So I began wondering if it was just my own nose's fault that the TS smelled funny, or "thin". Since he seems to like it even after it continues to smell weird, (not offensive weird, just weird), to me, I'll still wear it. Snowflake, I don't think I ever told you this before, but I love that avi - it looks like a kitty cookie! So damned cute! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loquacious Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 Hawaiian Punch, of course!!! I was trying to put my finger on it before and thought "hmm.. Juicy Juice?" but nope it was the other old school sugary beverage from my childhood! I love how the honey and raspberry swirl together to make a really sexy scent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowflake Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 Snowflake, I don't think I ever told you this before, but I love that avi - it looks like a kitty cookie! So damned cute! Thank you, Eggers. Your avi is very cute, too! That lovely puppy puts a smile on my face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeriendaTime Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 (edited) MT, I wonder if it's simply that *you* can smell the cops in your perfumes, and not necessarily other people? I mean, I just wonder if it's your nose, and not your skin turning the perfume? Is there anyone you could ask? I did notice that Torrid Sorcery changed a lot after I applied it. At first it was all lovely and fruit punch-y, then the perfume seemed to become very "thin", and it smelled a bit odd. I didn't interpret the smell as a coppy kind of smell. I asked BF if the perfume still smelled good on me, (he has no idea what cops are, or what they do - he isn't aware that I'm wearing pheros of any kind), and he said it smelled awesome. So I began wondering if it was just my own nose's fault that the TS smelled funny, or "thin". Since he seems to like it even after it continues to smell weird, (not offensive weird, just weird), to me, I'll still wear it. I wonder if you smell it too? I didn't think it smelled like cops or vagina at first. Just an odd smell after most of the perfume faded. I distinctly remember my ex huffing me three hours after I've applied occo purple. He was sniffing areas I applied the perfume and then other areas of me to figure out if the smell was my perfume or my body odor. And he would shake his head in confusion and say, "It's probably your perfume...or lotion or something." I sniffed when I got home and it smelled a bit musky (didn't associate it with vagina at the time) just a dirty musky scent and figured it was the "Dirty civet" described in the occo purple description. But I noticed I get the same smell with perfume that contains cops that don't stick on my skin for a long while. I just slathered on occo white and occo purple and I'm going to ask my sister if she smells a similarity after most of the scent has faded. Edited September 3, 2012 by MeriendaTime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eggers Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 I've never smelled the weird smell with any of the Occos, but I'll be interested to see the results of your test. It's funny, sometimes I smell the oddest things so clearly, and other times I can smell something, but my brain only registers it as "weird", I guess because it's unfamiliar with it. Just as an example, Occo Purple and Perty Flirty only ever seemed to register in my head as either "fruity" or "purple", and my guess is because I've never smelled a violet before, my brain never knew what to make of it, and wound up interpreting it in vague ways. I wonder sometimes if my brain does the same thing with cops. I've never smelled straight cops. I keep saying I need to get a bottle of EoW, but I always put it off, thinking that I'll never get that much use out of it, (since I have no dry-down patience). Lemme know how you make out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synergist Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 I've never smelled the weird smell with any of the Occos, but I'll be interested to see the results of your test. It's funny, sometimes I smell the oddest things so clearly, and other times I can smell something, but my brain only registers it as "weird", I guess because it's unfamiliar with it. Just as an example, Occo Purple and Perty Flirty only ever seemed to register in my head as either "fruity" or "purple", and my guess is because I've never smelled a violet before, my brain never knew what to make of it, and wound up interpreting it in vague ways. I wonder sometimes if my brain does the same thing with cops. I've never smelled straight cops. I keep saying I need to get a bottle of EoW, but I always put it off, thinking that I'll never get that much use out of it, (since I have no dry-down patience). Lemme know how you make out! I think it's worth getting the EoW - just so you know what they smell like! And then so you can add a couple drops to a mix if you want to sex it up a bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eggers Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 I'm such a chicken! Lol! Maybe I'll work it into one of my next orders. I've been building up to it with a couple of coppy UNs, but it's not the same. Although I gagged the first time I used UN Sexology spray, (made the mistake of applying while lips were parted - EW!!!). I feel much more comfy with cops when they're blended into something like Torrid Sorcery, even though it smells a little weird on me after a while. I'm really curious about why it smells weird to me, but BF loves it. 'Cause he really seemed to dig it. I wonder if it's my perception of it that's changed due to some nasal issue, or if he just likes the smell of cops? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueBear Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 I, personally, never get anything but yum with this one. but then again, I don't mind the smell of the cop-y un pheros!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eggers Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 I, personally, never get anything but yum with this one. but then again, I don't mind the smell of the cop-y un pheros!! I don't recommend eating them! Lol! It coated my tongue and was all I could taste until the next morning, even after I brushed my teeth! I could gag just thinking about it! I'm still gonna wear this one, 'cause I *really* like it on first application. It's all sweet raspberries and delicate honey. I might look into getting another raspberry scent that I can layer with, to extend that scent a bit longer... Or you never know, sometimes the first couple of times you wear something it does something weird, and then suddenly, your skin just "gets" it. I think it's really amusing that LPs do that. Makes it fun trying stuff over and over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyvey Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 IMO Good Witch's raspberry would be a fine extender! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyVictoria Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Good Call!! Good Witch and Torrid would make this beastly!!! But in a good way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eggers Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 That's exactly what I was thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calii Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 I cannot believe how much this has evolved since the first time I tryed it...truly cannot stress strongly enough to retry everything then do it again!! This is delicious ...where is that man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invidiana Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 I love this so hard. In a nutshell it's sticky gooey raspberries covered in stuff that's laden with calories. From the outset it's a burst of raspberry balanced just between bright and deep, and then the depth, warmth and "stickiness" of the fig and honey and vanilla keeps coming out more and more, and I think it's the amber which contributes an additional warm element and balances everything sweet out. Did I mention how long it lasts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeriendaTime Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 (edited) I've never smelled the weird smell with any of the Occos, but I'll be interested to see the results of your test. It's funny, sometimes I smell the oddest things so clearly, and other times I can smell something, but my brain only registers it as "weird", I guess because it's unfamiliar with it. Just as an example, Occo Purple and Perty Flirty only ever seemed to register in my head as either "fruity" or "purple", and my guess is because I've never smelled a violet before, my brain never knew what to make of it, and wound up interpreting it in vague ways. I wonder sometimes if my brain does the same thing with cops. I've never smelled straight cops. I keep saying I need to get a bottle of EoW, but I always put it off, thinking that I'll never get that much use out of it, (since I have no dry-down patience). Lemme know how you make out! I interpret occo purple as fruity also. I noticed that the fruity scents with cops tend go to that musky smelling stage much more quickly than scents with vanilla or honey, at least for me. My sister smells it! But we're sisters, so maybe we have a similar sense of smell? She didn't describe it as smelling like vaginal secretions. She just said, "It smells like ass. Both wrists. (one had torrid sorcery the other had occo purple)Like someone worked out and tried to cover their smell up with perfume." It isn't bothersome, I have to put my nose fairly close to it to smell it. I also tried swiping some copulin amped scents on her and was able to detect the musky smell after a few hours. I wonder if you'd be able to recognize the smell after getting a whiff of straight eow. I recall lurking one of your journal threads and you were talking about having a super sniffer. I think I may have a pretty good sense of smell because after reading your thread I made the connection between the sour/seminal smell. though males have to be 1-2 feet close to me. I cant' detect throughout a room like you can. Anywho. Back to topic. Torrid Sorcery smelled sooo nice. But I have to give it up since I'm able to detect that musky smell on me quicker than with other fumes with cops. Edited September 5, 2012 by MeriendaTime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueBear Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 I cannot believe how much this has evolved since the first time I tryed it...truly cannot stress strongly enough to retry everything then do it again!! This is delicious ...where is that man Aha!!! I knew this one would get you eventually, Calii! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eggers Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 I wonder if you'd be able to recognize the smell after getting a whiff of straight eow. I recall lurking one of your journal threads and you were talking about having a super sniffer. I think I may have a pretty good sense of smell because after reading your thread I made the connection between the sour/seminal smell. though males have to be 1-2 feet close to me. I cant' detect throughout a room like you can. I probably would. Kind of ironic that I can pinpoint male smells so easily, but not female ones. So much for super-sniffer! I think you have the girly-super-sniffer! I really need to get myself a bottle of EoW, but not this order. Soon... I do always smells something weird when I wear fruity scents with cops. But I've never associated it with ass or vag - musk, yeah. Funny that both you and your sister can detect the note so easily. I'm not sure if that would be helpful or aggravating! Ima hang onto my Torrid Sorcery. BF really likes the smell, and I'm still trying to figure out if BI works for me or not. The last time I wore BI in a full application, (as opposed to patch testing), BF and I had a fight-ish sort of thing. I found myself super-agitated, anyway, but I was before I put it on. I'm not sure if BI amplified my grouchiness, or if it would have escalated naturally, just because BF is a lazy so-and-so! Thanks for letting me know how it worked out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenergal Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 I just don't know what to do about this one. I do love it, but I I had several not so great comments about how I smelled today. I'm sure it was my newbie error, but this is what I had on. A long swipe of Occo White, from cleavage down around belly button and back. I then smooshed my forearms/wrists on it to get a bit on there. I let it dry down for about 25 mins. Took the tester applicator and applied a small swipe of Torrid on each forearm over the OCCO. I felt like it would disappear pretty quick and I wanted to test out my other goodies so I sprayed a full spray of Elan Vitale boosted w/ Cougar Potion on my chest. I think some may have got into my hair. My son said I smelled like laughing gas. He recently had his wisdom teeth out so I guess he detected an odor from the laughing gas. I chalked it up to just having applied the scents and ran out the door. When I got to work I was in the ladies room and there was only one other lady in there. While we were washing our hands she said, Do you smell incense?. I kind of shook my head but she just wouldn't let it go. Ughhh. When my co-worker got there I made her sniff my arm. She wrinkled her nose and said I smelled like flowers and she hoped it was a sample. WHAT!! I had to go to the bathroom and try to rinse off as much as I could, but I think I still smelled pretty potent. I think Cougar Potion has COPS in it too right? Was this just too much cops or maybe the combo of Torrid w/ Elan Vitale? Or the combo of COPS + BI + Cougar? Could my body chemistry turn a scent that much? I did try Torrid the other day by itself and my kids asked I had lit a candle. After that I also tried Torrid with The Good Witch, which was boosted with Perfect Match and loved it, but still those darn kids said I smelled like a candle. I have read tons of posts and thought I could get fancy with some layering, but I guess I have lots to learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueBear Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 (edited) Well, it was a lot of fragrance happening. I think both OCCO White and Torrid Sorcery are both strongly scented, and I can't imagine Elan Vitale with Torrid. And then the BI plus the Cougar plus the cops...I think you definitely had a phero situation. It's not surprising your son didn't like the smell. That was a lot of cops action!! Try again one at a time. Edited September 6, 2012 by BlueBear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potion Master Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Noooo! Too many perfumes at once!!! As well as too much cops and mixing phero blends. There's no need to mix Torrid with anything else, it's a finished phero enhanced perfume. You may have been wearing clashing scents too. Please try just one at a time. I bet your results will be much much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeriendaTime Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 (edited) Greenergal - I'm sorry you get those reactions. I wear a lot of my scents for me these days. I've read in another thread... I think it was Luna who said the typical reaction to artisan perfume is "candle" smelling. And I think I've a read a few comments where the ladies on here say someone commented on them smelling like a candle. Might have to do with what they associated the smell with? I personally, don't get the candle smell from any of the LPs I have, except for LP Red, which I like anyway despite it reminding me of a candle a bit. That was a little rude of your co worker to say! Have you tried using perfumes one at a time? I probably would. Kind of ironic that I can pinpoint male smells so easily, but not female ones. So much for super-sniffer! I think you have the girly-super-sniffer! I really need to get myself a bottle of EoW, but not this order. Soon... I do always smells something weird when I wear fruity scents with cops. But I've never associated it with ass or vag - musk, yeah. Funny that both you and your sister can detect the note so easily. I'm not sure if that would be helpful or aggravating! Ima hang onto my Torrid Sorcery. BF really likes the smell, and I'm still trying to figure out if BI works for me or not. The last time I wore BI in a full application, (as opposed to patch testing), BF and I had a fight-ish sort of thing. I found myself super-agitated, anyway, but I was before I put it on. I'm not sure if BI amplified my grouchiness, or if it would have escalated naturally, just because BF is a lazy so-and-so! Thanks for letting me know how it worked out! It is actually if we're in each others spaces! The girly sniffer is pretty useful I never understood the meaning to this song until I became more active in the LPMP forums and read the endless threads on cops. Warning : Don't listen to this song if there are children in the immediate area. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruef7aYCEbc&feature=related I think there's a bit of none in BI. I wonder if that could've amplified annoyed/angry feelings. Hmm. Edit: Typo Edited September 6, 2012 by MeriendaTime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenergal Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Thank you for bunches for your advice! I figured I was probably overdoing it, but I couldn't stop myself. I would smell one and then think Oooooh, you smell good, I'll just put a little bit of you on. And then pick up another one and do the same thing. Here I am thinking Uhhh, yeah.... I smell damn good and sexy! and instead I am smelling like somebody knocked over a perfume display. I have all these goodies and I just want to try them all out right away. Lesson learned though. I imagine I'll have much more to learn, but I am soooo up for the journey! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueBear Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Greenergal - I'm sorry you get those reactions. I wear a lot of my scents for me these days. I've read in another thread... I think it was Luna who said the typical reaction to artisan perfume is "candle" smelling. And I think I've a read a few comments where the ladies on here say someone commented on them smelling like a perfume. Might have to do with what they associated the smell with. I personally, don't get the candle smell from any of the LPs I have, except for LP Red, which I like anyway despite it reminding me of a candle a bit. That was a little rude of your co worker to say! Have you tried using perfumes one at a time? It is actually if we're in each others spaces! The girly sniffer is pretty useful I never understood the meaning to this song until I became more active in the LPMP forums and read the endless threads on cops. Warning : Don't listen to this song if there are children in the immediate area. I think there's a bit of none in BI. I wonder if that could've amplified annoyed/angry feelings. Hmm. OMG... is that a real song or a parody? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eggers Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 OMG! What BlueBear said! LOL!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenergal Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 LOL!!! I had to wait until kids weren't around to watch the video. Too funny! It's stuck in my head now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeriendaTime Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 OMG... is that a real song or a parody? I've been trying to figure that one out for a couple years now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luna65 Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 I'm really curious about why it smells weird to me, but BF loves it. 'Cause he really seemed to dig it. I wonder if it's my perception of it that's changed due to some nasal issue, or if he just likes the smell of cops? Men DO like the smell, even if they don't think they do. Because they're supposed to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eggers Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Men DO like the smell, even if they don't think they do. Because they're supposed to. He sure does! He had his nose stuck to my arm when I tested TS. I suppose it doesn't much matter if it smells funny to me after a while, if I only plan to wear it for play time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luna65 Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Like Dolly has said in the past, "I'll wear gasoline if I think it will work!" And really, I don't think any woman should judge cops based on their own impressions...judge them only by their effectiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calii Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 He sure does! He had his nose stuck to my arm when I tested TS. I suppose it doesn't much matter if it smells funny to me after a while, if I only plan to wear it for play time... When playtime is consistently rewarding enough,you will learn to love the scent...just like we train them,it works both ways Ok that does not sound very guy friendly LOL,but an example is,at this point my SP would be automatically turned on with MRF 2,with or without the 'mones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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