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Help! What phero to help me be more open?


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Oh Phergineer, I'm glad you got to discuss it all, and sorry it didn't go as well as hoped for. Your situation is making me feel stressed and irritated for you. She really just sounds like a pushy conniving little bitch that thinks because you're an introverted, quieter person that she can do whatever the fuck she likes.

 

I still say don't clean that damn bathroom. His friend used it, she left a disgusting mess. His family will use it next (whom you also said are slobbish). He can either do his bit and clean it for their arrival, or let them use it dirty. Just close the door and don't think about it, because it's just another way you can be used and disrespected in this situation. If she's not welcome in your house anymore he needs to make that clear the next time she presumes she will be able to come round. Tyvey's Dom bomb could be just the thing here, for him and her. If they both see that you're strong and won't back down then no one will be feeling like they can walk all over you.

 

Also, there is nothing wrong with being an introvert! If your fiancé thinks you being who you are is unacceptable, and you need to be more like him, then I'm sorry but he needs to get a fucking clue. I can't even begin to count the number of extroverts who treat us this way- as though we need to change because we aren't good enough, being unlike them. Respect go both ways. So does tolerance and flexibility. Good luck and stay strong.

Edited by vladmyra
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Thanks Vladmyra, I was actually thinking about not cleaning the bathroom at all... in our conversation tonight I mentioned he should do it, and his reply was "is this penance for something my friend did?! I refuse to do it, or apologize for her".

 

On another note, he sent me this when I was in art class. I looked at it as serendipity. .. it described me to a T...

 

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/6069438?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000023&ir=Good+News

 

Too bad he did not read the entire article :(

Edited by phergineer
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Hey, it didn't go perfectly but there was some recognition on his part regarding your position and the friend's behaviour, right? So at least that gives you a starting point to work on all of this. I'm sorry it was difficult to get through, though. Your idea about different pheros sounds for these kinds of conversations smart.

 

You might want to have a little think about how you'll deal with things if she does show up for Thanksgiving.

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Yep, he really should read this article properly and have a little think about what that means for you. And at the risk of beating a dead horse here, if he refuses to clean her dirty bathroom I would too if I were you. Because no, it's not penance for something she did. It's called being fucking considerate and doing your bit!

 

Thought I'd add this link, in case you can get him to look at it properly. Probably not though- it might feel like penance for not respecting your personality.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/16/understanding-introverts-_n_5989656.html?cps=gravity

Edited by vladmyra
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Because no, it's not penance for something she did. It's called being fucking considerate and doing your bit!

 

 

:yeahthat:

 

I don't mean to be rude, but have you thought about how will he act once you have a baby? You'll do everything and he'll go to his basketball game. I don't know you nor him, but I so do not like him and how he is treating you!! It's like he doesn't respect you. You have to clean everything after his friend visited! You are not his or her maid! And if he's treating you like this now, can you imagine how he will treat you once you are married?

Edited by cutie.pie
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I'm going to make a suggestion here, because one thing you mentioned that you said to him during your talk is that you're uncomfortable with how close they are, and that you suggested there might be something going on between them, and it's been bugging me all night.

 

First off, guys are kind of stunned when it comes to recognizing when women are interested in them.

 

Women, on the other hand, are particularly astute when it comes to recognizing the signs - especially when it involves another woman showing signs of interest in their guy.

 

What I'd like to suggest is that you don't harp on him about this point. Because there is nothing like planting that seed to make things blow up in your face. She might be interested in him, (and the pink lace thong left on the faucet would suggest very strongly to me that she is, or might be, or even that she suspects that you're feeling insecure and wants to get under your skin to exert some kind of power over you/him/your relationship), but he's a dude, and is probably not picking up the signs. Chances are very good that he doesn't look at her that way at all. He probably looks at her and thinks, "Cool. This person likes me. We get along. We should be buddies." - Kind of like a dog you throw a ball to. (Not wanting to cause offence to the males on the board, but just trying to simplify the imagery).

 

You two are engaged, right? He loves you.

 

But I'm worried that if you point out that you think she's interested, you'll plant a seed that's really tough to dig up again once it's grown roots. (Trust me; I have much experience in this area!) If you point it out - and repeatedly do so - you'll wind up making him look at her in an entirely different way than he probably does now, which is like a buddy. And that could open a whole new scenario for you to deal with, including power plays on his part, (because now he'll know how to push your buttons: show closeness/buddyship with another woman), and possibly even leading to indiscretions on his part. (Again, ask me how I know).

 

I know most people advocate honesty in talking about their feelings with life partners. But really, I believe there's honesty, and then there's stupidity generated by insecurity. Sometimes you have to keep things to yourself if you want to protect yourself. I strongly suggest that you do not mention their closeness being a bothersome factor again - it can only drive them closer together into a "we-ship", or worse. Especially if he decides to tell her that you're feeling insecure. Because people are people, and people tend to be very suggestible, and behaviour is very predictable.

 

Also, painting this picture for him will only make it more enjoyable for him to spend time with her, (because you've given her the power position by admitting feelings of insecurity - and in his mind, she's fun, easy, and carefree), and less enjoyable to come home to you, (the one who's harping on him when he gets there).

 

And I might add that you do not suggest to him that they have something going on between them unless you have solid evidence to support that suspicion. Because no matter who you are, man or woman, there's little that's more offensive than having your integrity questioned, especially if you've done nothing wrong, (and I suspect your fiancé is, at present, only enjoying the buddyship he has with this woman).

 

So I would suggest that you keep this tidbit to yourself, (and yes, I know how incredibly difficult it can be, because I often have to do it, too, having a very outgoing and attractive BF who attracts the attention of loads of women), and concentrate on the more concrete issues: his refusal to help clean the bathroom HIS guest mucked up, for example.

 

You'll cause a lot less damage to your relationship if you do.

 

I don't intend to be alarmist here. But I've been down that road more than a few times, having been an insecure, shy introvert myself for most of my life (I'm certainly not NOW - but that took some real effort on my part). And while generally I think that yes, honesty is the best policy in relationship, this - your insecurity regarding their relationship - can only do more harm than good if it's brought into the light. And I'd hate this one admission to blow up in your face. Those beans are beans you want to keep sealed in their can - don't spill them. Seriously.

 

I wish you all the luck in the world with this issue, Phergineer.

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Eggers is spitting gold right there!!! I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it's not him that you don't trust. You know and love him and know he feels the same. It's probably her you don't trust because you don't know her and she's playing these games. I think what he's hearing is you don't trust him, even if it's not what you mean. I would back off that angle for a bit. I think you made excellent grounds with your conversation, even if it didn't go exactly as planned. But as Donsie said, there is some recognition on his part. That is a win! I'm liking your plan of not cleaning the bathroom. You can explain that it's not penance; it's common courtesy for him to clean up after his pig of a house guest.

 

Chin up, dear. This, too, shall pass! :Hug_emoticon:

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Oh great advice going on here! I would LFM that bitch, and be the sexy lady-of-the-house. Leave your things in the living room or kitchen counter too. Flirt and be playful with your man in front of her.... Get the point across: "my territory".

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Print Eggers advice out, take it to a tattoo artist and have it tattooed up and down your arms for easy reference.

It's that important and that easy to forget in the heat of the moment.

 

I wish I would have had these women when this happened to me. I won't tell you how mine ended! Let's just say I had no one to help me get a clear perspective on it and allowed him to convince me I was absolutely irrational. He helped me out with ideas on how to avoid her too! There is much confusion between being a "nag" and allowing someone to walk all over you. The girl was a master manipulator but In the end it came down to this... He was just unwilling to be supportive and have my back when somethkng was obviously causing me so much anxiety. And I trusted that it would all blow over...

 

Take Eggers advice with him and Hearts advice with her. Let her know you are keeping your power.

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None of the vets here will be surprised that I am less convinced that he is innocently blithely oblivious. As already perfectly stated upthread, his reaction was deflective and, I might even go so far as to say, gaslighting. His reaction was not that of a person who has just had someone say something completely ridiculous that OH SO GENUINELY NEVER EVEN ENTERED his head. If someone said to you that they were bothered by thoughts that you might be a unicorn, how would you react? Not the way he did. All this is to say I DO NOT think you (phergineer) are 'crazy' or 'irrational' or imagining things - not just on asshat's side but your fiance's.

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Agreed on all points. I know I'm not supposed to bring up the fact I am insecure about his relationship with this woman... And in our conversation last night I even explained it's not him I don't trust, but her, because I don't know her and because I don't think he can notice the signs in her behavior that I do.

That being said, I do not plan on bringing it up again. I did use to be that insecure young girl that felt threatened by every woman craving my partner's presence. This is not really like that. A glimpse of old me sneaked through this weekend, but I was really more frustrated with my private space being invaded and feeling disrespected as the lady of the house than she being a threat to my future marriage. I know that me closing off as a result of this woman's behavior made him feel pushed towards her. She was fun, happy the entire weekend and I was cold and barely speaking. Whom do you think he'd rather be around?

 

I won't bring up the bathroom clean-up until this coming weekend either. By then, everything should be back to normal and I know he'll ask me what he can do to help. He'll feel bad seeing me slave away cleaning his friend's mess. Maybe I'll get some Mother's Little Helper by then too :)

 

Vladmyra, thank you for that article! One of my mentors told me once I live in a bubble, just like that, haha! So funny :) Hamster ball...

Edited by phergineer
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I've been catching up on this and many good points have been raised. I hope you are doing ok, it's a lot to process.

I think one thing is clear you have some issues to work out with your fiancé and pheros alone will not solve this.

I can only go by what you have posted but I'll say this, the issues that need to be addressed are not your alone. So you have some insecurities BFD. That's not the issue here and so does everyone else.

You are unhappy about this situation and IMO Issue #1, your guy is getting something out of this, he has to be, otherwise he would not be dealing with this. Most men are to fucking lazy in their emotional lives to put up with all this shit if there's no return in it. I think you know that too.

I don't know what his return is, so don't go panic...actual sex, right away, tho there's a small possibility of it. I'd bet he just feels really fucking good. COCK OF THE WALK. King of his shit and all he surveys. What a fucker!

He knows Mz can't pay for a hotel, cluster-fuck is, at least somewhat, into him. Or maybe he just thinks she is and she's just an attention whore, does she have other friends? family? Thanksgiving really? it's not ok it's weird,

especially since it's obvious that you are not cool with it. And they both fucking know it!!

But here's the thing you are supposed to marry this guy. The question you should ask is why does he continue to perpetrate the situation.

HE LIKES IT!!!! That should piss you off.

Here's the first step you should take on the road to transforming this issue .. Have him clean the bathroom. (tho that maybe an op missed)

Speaking of the bathroom and the whole house? Why do you clean up but have no say in who gets to be a guest?? You both work, you are equal.

 

You are very nice and considerate. He has become very accustom to your accommodations.

I'm not saying become a mega bitch, but it's time for you to be a little less accommodating, (a baby bitch is a good thing) pick one non-negotiable thing, stick to it and see how he reacts. I seriously urge you to try this or something, unless the thought of living with a man who has his cake and eats right in front of you then expects you to clean up the crumbs and be thankful for it ..appeals to you.

Edited by StacyK
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None of the vets here will be surprised that I am less convinced that he is innocently blithely oblivious. As already perfectly stated upthread, his reaction was deflective and, I might even go so far as to say, gaslighting. His reaction was not that of a person who has just had someone say something completely ridiculous that OH SO GENUINELY NEVER EVEN ENTERED his head. If someone said to you that they were bothered by thoughts that you might be a unicorn, how would you react? Not the way he did. All this is to say I DO NOT think you (phergineer) are 'crazy' or 'irrational' or imagining things - not just on asshat's side but your fiance's.

Nor am I, I think he knows exactly what's up..

 

What say you QG???

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I agree with tyvey and StacyK!

 

First he tells you you shut down around his family and friends, then he sends you that article and also he brings to your home a person that is so much different that you...it's like he's constantly reminding you what he doesn't like about you and what he wants you to change!

 

ETA: spelling, arggh

Edited by cutie.pie
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@ Tyvey - I don't know the guy, or how he normally reacts, which is why I phrased everything the way I did in my post this morning. I do think some guys are pretty tuned in when it comes to knowing who is and who isn't attracted to them. But some guys are pretty thick, (mine is definitely one of the thick ones). And without knowing him, I was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt. Generally speaking, I think most dudes are kinda oblivious, while I think some are happy to get an ego-boost from having an attractive female friend who is obviously attracted to him.

 

What I meant in my post, when I really get down to it, is for Phergineer not to let her insecurity about the sitch drive her actions. Because that would give him leverage to push her buttons at any point in the future - he would know exactly how to get under her skin. And I know from experience how shitty it is to give someone that kind of power to play with your emotions, because if they're pissed enough, they'll do it.

 

Love is not as perfect as we all think and expect it to be. It's not all sunshine, roses and rainbows. People have egos - even people who are in love - and they like to have their egos stroked. People also like to feel powerful, and if given the right information, they might feel the need to exert that power.

 

That's kind of what I was getting at. I just don't want Phergineer to wind up in the kind of situation I've found myself in - several times, with several different boyfriends - in the past. It really sucks when someone knows one of your most vulnerable spots, and decides to poke it whenever he's pissed off, or he wants to get his way no matter what.

 

I did not mean to imply that I think ALL guys are hopeless idiots. Just that not all of them have ulterior motives. And some are genuinely stunned - like my BF! :lol:

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Amen Stacey K.

It's always fun to reverse the story and see if he would pug up with it if it was your male friend. NO FUCKING WAY is how it would be. No way in hell.

^^Oh HELL NO!! He'd be so afraid of his penis shrinking down.. no way. Can you imagine some dude friend leaving his nasty, hooker-skankwear on the GD bathroom sink??

 

I'd never use that sink again unless he gets in there and cleans that with some bleach. I'd be so afraid of her nasty crotch crickets contaminating the sink!

 

ETA, I hope this isn't offensive.. I do take this seriously because someone being manipulated and feeling stuck sucks...

Edited by StacyK
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oh egg, I actually agree 1000% with your suggestion re how best to react (having experienced handling it both ways for my part, as well as having been on the other side of it)! I was more focusing on & sharing my read on the facts of how this particular person reacted to phergineer's (calm & IMO entirely rational) statement...

Edited by tyvey
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It really sucks when someone knows one of your most vulnerable spots, and decides to poke it whenever he's pissed off, or he wants to get his way no matter what.

 

I do take this seriously because someone being manipulated and feeling stuck sucks...

So true! I remember how my ex used to tell me I was fat (I gained 30 kg during my pregnancy), he told me because I don't have a college degree my opinion doesn't count and he was poking me with stuff he knew about me. I didn't say anything. I was afraid he would leave me. He did leave me. He left me and our 10 month old twins. And that was the second best thing he ever did to me (our twin daughters are the first). But I wish I had someone to tell me I deserve more and maybe I wouldn't have let him brainwash me for so long.

 

ETA: I'm sorry, I don't want to hijack this thread, but maybe someone will learn from my mistakes.

Edited by cutie.pie
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@ Tyvey - I just didn't want to leave you with the impression that I'm that naïve about men! :lol: And yes, I too have been the "poker" in at least one relationship. (I couldn't help myself - he was so controlling, and he made it too easy). ETA - I was a bit of a wild girl in my youth. ;)

Edited by Eggers
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I agree cutie pie. I've been in that situation also. My ex was always 'well it wouldn't bother ME'. Totally irrelevant!! The pint is that these things bothered ME, and in this case, YOU and they do not care. This seems the crux of the matter. My ex would tell me ' just stop being bothered by it'. What a complete dick he was. I thought in time I could get him to see my side, we'd make things work etc...

It honestly took reading the book I suggested to see how things becoming unworkable wasn't my fault, and this was way after we broke up! Commitmentphobics get married, it's not as simple as them just not getting involved.

 

Promises not kept, feelings left unconsidered, constant blame, YOU are the problem being so introverted/antisocial, whatever, it all adds up to a whole load of disrespect and if it were me, knowing what I know now, I'd be running for the hills.

Sorry if this is upsetting but I just hate to see someone treated like this. Respect goes both ways in a good relationship, it has to for things to work. I only see you bending over for him.

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When I read about your experiences with prior relationships it reminds me of my own (ex's), and it gets me angry that so many women have to deal with this. Misogynistic, abusive, commitment-phobic, narcissistic men.

It seems most women have suffered through this at some point in their lives. It took me years to learn to love myself and start recognizing these destructive behaviors in partners towards me, and in myself, and until this weekend, I don't think I noticed anything that would alarm me in our relationship.

I still don't think he is like my ex's. I may be a fool, but in this case I think he genuinely wanted to help a friend and got taken advantage off, at the expense of my well being and happiness. Could he have put his foot in the door and not let her walk all over me? Of course, but that's not his personality... Once she asked to borrow his car, it was like a snowball effect that he didn't know how to stop. And he still doesn't think she looks at him as anything more than just a friend. Maybe she doesn't. Maybe she just left the pink thong on the faucet because she's an airhead. :gross:

I think if he sticks to the statement that she is not welcome to our home anymore, and she doesn't show up to Thanksgiving, we are good to go. I also do not want to be in his presence again. I know they'll keep talking... but there's nothing I can do about that. And overbearing jealousy on my part will give him an advantage and make me less desirable. Unfortunately, something that he cannot take back, is that he invited her to our wedding... we haven't sent out our official invites yet, but he's told her verbally. So I'd have to interact with her on my big day!!! :A002:

Funny enough, he first told me about this woman back in January, as in "T. can't wait to meet you, I've been talking and gushing to her so much about you, she is excited to meet you".

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So true! I remember how my ex used to tell me I was fat (I gained 30 kg during my pregnancy), he told me because I don't have a college degree my opinion doesn't count and he was poking me with stuff he knew about me. I didn't say anything. I was afraid he would leave me. He did leave me. He left me and our 10 month old twins. And that was the second best thing he ever did to me (our twin daughters are the first). But I wish I had someone to tell me I deserve more and maybe I wouldn't have let him brainwash me for so long.

 

ETA: I'm sorry, I don't want to hijack this thread, but maybe someone will learn from my mistakes.

Wouldn't it have been great to tell him the most common reason married women gain weight is because they are depressed being married to a man who is dull, unfulfilling as a partner and unable to satisfy them sexually. Ah hindsight.

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When I read about your experiences with prior relationships it reminds me of my own (ex's), and it gets me angry that so many women have to deal with this. Misogynistic, abusive, commitment-phobic, narcissistic men.

It seems most women have suffered through this at some point in their lives. It took me years to learn to love myself and start recognizing these destructive behaviors in partners towards me, and in myself, and until this weekend, I don't think I noticed anything that would alarm me in our relationship.

I still don't think he is like my ex's. I may be a fool, but in this case I think he genuinely wanted to help a friend and got taken advantage off, at the expense of my well being and happiness. Could he have put his foot in the door and not let her walk all over me? Of course, but that's not his personality... Once she asked to borrow his car, it was like a snowball effect that he didn't know how to stop. And he still doesn't think she looks at him as anything more than just a friend. Maybe she doesn't. Maybe she just left the pink thong on the faucet because she's an airhead. :gross:

I think if he sticks to the statement that she is not welcome to our home anymore, and she doesn't show up to Thanksgiving, we are good to go. I also do not want to be in his presence again. I know they'll keep talking... but there's nothing I can do about that. And overbearing jealousy on my part will give him an advantage and make me less desirable. Unfortunately, something that he cannot take back, is that he invited her to our wedding... we haven't sent out our official invites yet, but he's told her verbally. So I'd have to interact with her on my big day!!! :A002:

Funny enough, he first told me about this woman back in January, as in "T. can't wait to meet you, I've been talking and gushing to her so much about you, she is excited to meet you".

Officially uninvite her to Thanksgiving.. just say your scaling down just close family. Do not invite her to your wedding.
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Officially uninvite her to Thanksgiving.. just say your scaling down just close family. Do not invite her to your wedding.

Ho do you uninvite someone to your wedding? I can't do that to my future husband. After all, he would have to keep interacting with her, they are coworkers...

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For your sake pheringeer, I hope that she does NOT show up. May I suggest that you mention to your fiance, in a non confrontational way, something to the effect of, "honey, it makes me feel that my feelings don't matter to you when you make decisions that concern both of us without discussing it with me first." This is a rather key point as I see it, because I am getting the sense that this happens a good deal. I can not speak for anyone else, but my experience is that what a man shows you during your first month together is pretty much them showing you who they are and always will be. Another thing I pay attention to is how they treat their mother since this can often, though not always, indicate how they will treat you. I am in agreement with much of what has been said by others here. Where the "oopsy" panties incident is concerned, that was blatantly disrespectful to you and I swear, I would have put on heavy duty gloves, swirled them around in the toilet, and just for good measure, put some bathroom cleaner directly onto them, put place them into a plastic bag, returned them to her, and hoped she got chemical burns on her crotch! Also, maybe take her aside discreetly, and in an embarrassed sort of way, tell her to please put her LOVELY little panties out of sight. That it's just..you know.. unsightly and makes you feel uncomfortable having someone else's "intimates" in your bathroom. (You can say this all sweetly, as if telling someone who doesn't know better, that it just isn't what LADIES do. You can sort of slightly shudder in disgust but smile sweetly as you say so. Perhaps ending it by adding, now I know you don't mean to come across that way. So just between us girls.) I am only this evil with those who give me good reason to be. If you are my friend, I will value you, help you, love you, treat you like gold. If you are my enemy, I will treat you as if I am acting on all of your bad karma' s behalf, and will do so with a smile.

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Don't send her an invite and hope for the best. This is IMO of course.

 

IDK you have to do what's right for you. Truthfully I think "she's" a symptom of a larger issue but perhaps she grossed your guy out and that may be the beginning of the end for her. I hope so for your sake. You certainly have cause to nix her from your household guest list forever...

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Nor am I, I think he knows exactly what's up..

 

What say you QG???

 

My thoughts on this subject from the Bitching Post:

 

 

I would never think to bring anyone into my home to spend the night unless my wife was in complete agreement and was completely comfortable with it. My wife is a very quiet, private person so I would not even think to ask unless I was already sure she would be fine with it. And if I got the slightest hesitation, it would not happen.

 

And I would certainly not even ask about a single female friend. For it to be a single female friend - I would merely tell my wife "X" will be in town and would like to go out with us one night. If my wife asked if she had a place to stay, we might discuss it, but even then it would be based on a very close read of the situation. If she did not ask, I would certainly not even ask. Sorry "friend", you are on your own lol.

 

As Tyvey says, your fiance should be much more interested in your comfort level with the situation, not her happiness. It is your home too and you should have a veto if you are not comfortable with the situation for any reason. I sit here and question his motives.

 

 

 

 

Cinn is right - it has nothing to do with personality types. It is about respecting the other person's desires & comfort zones. The "It would not bother me" argument is usually selfish BS especially when using it to try to push your way. Because everyone has different comfort levels and he damn well knows that. So whether it would bother him or not is irrelevant if it bothers you.

 

I am a quiet extrovert. Mrs. QG is a gracious introvert. We forgo a lot of social events I would like to attend because it is not her cup of tea. She often says "I know you would like to go ..." My response is "Yes, but time with you is more important." And her enjoying that time together is much more important than me having a good time while she is in an uncomfortable position.

 

I think Tyvey & I see this pretty much the same way. I am a guy and I know guy butthead stunts. This sounds like one. Introvert or not, if Phergineer says she is uncomfortable with that girl being there, that should be the end of it. Really.

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Ho do you uninvite someone to your wedding? I can't do that to my future husband. After all, he would have to keep interacting with her, they are coworkers...

Real fucking simple: "forget" to send the invite, lol! You're probably doing all the work on that end, anyway, & if he says something...well, you can't control if something gets lost in the mail, now can you? ;)

Edited by Beccah
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Real fucking simple: "forget" to send the invite, lol! You're probably doing all the work on that end, anyway, & if he says something...well, you can't control if something gets lost in the mail, now can you? ;)

 

Hmmm... that might point arrows directly to me :) But I'll figure it out.

There's a long time until May, as long as I don't see her until then, I should be fine. Plus, maybe she'll get herself a boyfriend and I could care less at that point.

I have not brought her up anymore...

 

My main concern now is how to deal with his family and friends (let's assume the woman this thread has been about will not be there). Given that I am an introvert, I do close off in large crowds, especially with people I don't know very well. As I mentioned before, he would like me to behave like myself, because that's how he portrays me to them - and I shut down and become uncomfortable. I get irritated or simply uninterested in chit-chat. I have a really hard time contributing to that. When I'm with him, my family or my close friends - no issue, I open up. But we also don't talk about the weather...

He says people can see it in my body language I do not want to be there...

 

So, what do you recommend I wear - for Thanksgiving dinner, and when I am out with his friends, so I can be more open and interact more? I don't need to be the life of the party, but I would like to be less up tight. His family is really nice to me, no issues there. I just don't feel close to them.

Open Windows works great in making those around me talk, but not so much on me.

I've also used a Topper wax melt once, but I did not notice chatty effects on me. It made me seem a little more uplifted, yes.

I've tried Lumina once, but I was with my own friends, so I was already pretty comfortable in that setting.

 

Thank you!

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Have you tried Lace?

I did! I Actually really liked it. But again, it was everyone around me who was willing to talk to me more and interact.

I think it did work in that I was talking back more too, but I wasn't initiating conversation myself...

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Is this an actual thing? Because if it's not, it needs to be...

 

 

 

Ha! not that i know of! I think v was just talking about my early cry "DOM THEM ALL"

 

 

Yes, there needs to be! It should have peonies and pink sugar...and then a touch of leather to show 'em who's boss. (The note, not the phero since it will also contain copious amounts of Dom.) :smiley-sex010:

 

 

 

Hmmm... that might point arrows directly to me :) But I'll figure it out.

There's a long time until May, as long as I don't see her until then, I should be fine. Plus, maybe she'll get herself a boyfriend and I could care less at that point.

I have not brought her up anymore...

 

My main concern now is how to deal with his family and friends (let's assume the woman this thread has been about will not be there). Given that I am an introvert, I do close off in large crowds, especially with people I don't know very well. As I mentioned before, he would like me to behave like myself, because that's how he portrays me to them - and I shut down and become uncomfortable. I get irritated or simply uninterested in chit-chat. I have a really hard time contributing to that. When I'm with him, my family or my close friends - no issue, I open up. But we also don't talk about the weather...

He says people can see it in my body language I do not want to be there...

 

So, what do you recommend I wear - for Thanksgiving dinner, and when I am out with his friends, so I can be more open and interact more? I don't need to be the life of the party, but I would like to be less up tight. His family is really nice to me, no issues there. I just don't feel close to them.

Open Windows works great in making those around me talk, but not so much on me.

I've also used a Topper wax melt once, but I did not notice chatty effects on me. It made me seem a little more uplifted, yes.

I've tried Lumina once, but I was with my own friends, so I was already pretty comfortable in that setting.

 

Thank you!

 

The feeling of closeness will take time to develop, and I'm not sure that a phero can force it before it happens on its own. It can help with barriers so that you can get there, however, and I would totally recommend Perfect Match for that. If you noticed selfies with Lumina, I'd go for that all the way and not assume it was jsut because you were with your friends. I mean, it may turn out to be the case, but it's worth a shot. Do you think if you were more relaxed you'd be talkative? If so, then I'd go with the Balm Bomb or B2 Halo recommended. Last but not least is TMI. It has beta nol in it. I'd focus it in places where it will have more of an impact on you.

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Hmmm... that might point arrows directly to me :) But I'll figure it out.

There's a long time until May, as long as I don't see her until then, I should be fine. Plus, maybe she'll get herself a boyfriend and I could care less at that point.

I have not brought her up anymore...

 

My main concern now is how to deal with his family and friends (let's assume the woman this thread has been about will not be there). Given that I am an introvert, I do close off in large crowds, especially with people I don't know very well. As I mentioned before, he would like me to behave like myself, because that's how he portrays me to them - and I shut down and become uncomfortable. I get irritated or simply uninterested in chit-chat. I have a really hard time contributing to that. When I'm with him, my family or my close friends - no issue, I open up. But we also don't talk about the weather...

He says people can see it in my body language I do not want to be there...

 

So, what do you recommend I wear - for Thanksgiving dinner, and when I am out with his friends, so I can be more open and interact more? I don't need to be the life of the party, but I would like to be less up tight. His family is really nice to me, no issues there. I just don't feel close to them.

Open Windows works great in making those around me talk, but not so much on me.

I've also used a Topper wax melt once, but I did not notice chatty effects on me. It made me seem a little more uplifted, yes.

I've tried Lumina once, but I was with my own friends, so I was already pretty comfortable in that setting.

 

Thank you!

I can relate pheringeer. I read that article on introverts and never really thought I was one, but apparently, I fit the criteria in that I prefer small gatherings of friends/family with quality communication rather than large clusterf#%ks with trivial idle chatter. The larger crowds give me anxiety and the lack of really connecting with those people I DO want to see brings me no joy. Luckily, my partner shares my feelings on these large gatherings and understands my feelings. It got to the point finally, where when his family was having one of their huge, chaotic gatherings, I just tell him "go ahead and visit with them, I know there are people there you haven't seen in a long time. It's your family and if you want to, you should go." He gets it. In your case though, this might not be possible. YET. Until then, perhaps focus on keeping your discomfort with it under control with the pheros people have suggested. Balm Bomb is lovely. B2.2 is a much heavier hitter if we are talking about something closer to panic. If it is more a matter of sort of meshing better with people, maybe Treasured Hearts? It *might* be helpful in the future as you get to know these people better, if you are comfortable enough with them to confide that you have some social anxiety in crowds. In my case, just getting that part out there has helped relieve some of the pressure.

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Hmmm... that might point arrows directly to me :) But I'll figure it out.

There's a long time until May, as long as I don't see her until then, I should be fine. Plus, maybe she'll get herself a boyfriend and I could care less at that point.

I have not brought her up anymore...

 

My main concern now is how to deal with his family and friends (let's assume the woman this thread has been about will not be there). Given that I am an introvert, I do close off in large crowds, especially with people I don't know very well. As I mentioned before, he would like me to behave like myself, because that's how he portrays me to them - and I shut down and become uncomfortable. I get irritated or simply uninterested in chit-chat. I have a really hard time contributing to that. When I'm with him, my family or my close friends - no issue, I open up. But we also don't talk about the weather...

He says people can see it in my body language I do not want to be there...

 

So, what do you recommend I wear - for Thanksgiving dinner, and when I am out with his friends, so I can be more open and interact more? I don't need to be the life of the party, but I would like to be less up tight. His family is really nice to me, no issues there. I just don't feel close to them.

Open Windows works great in making those around me talk, but not so much on me.

I've also used a Topper wax melt once, but I did not notice chatty effects on me. It made me seem a little more uplifted, yes.

I've tried Lumina once, but I was with my own friends, so I was already pretty comfortable in that setting.

 

Thank you!

I think you should wear Audacious when you out out with his friends. Feel good, have fun, forget the BS. It's a fun, likeable phero. It's a great phero and may really aid you in coming out of your shell. Otherwise, just use OW or Levitation for default.

 

For Thanksgiving I'd recoment 1st choice Tresured Hearts. It's a femine social but has a little more Alpha sig than a super girly social like H&S. It's Not an alpha blend per say just a bit more so or neutral than H&S. I always get on well with women & Men with it. Otherwise ditto OW or Lev.

Edited by StacyK
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I have probably nothing of use to add, I just wanted to say that I really, really want to go over there and slap that hunt-with-a-C right across her bitchy little face.

 

Sorry, I know that was strong. ETA: Okay, so, I realize now that what follows is stronger yet...but bear with me...

 

She is getting EXACTLY WHAT SHE WANTS - she is causing arguments between you and your fiance, and she is making you too uncomfortable to go out with them...so she has him alone.

 

Him? Most likely, he's just loving the feeling of two women fighting over him.

 

If it were me, I WOULD wander around the house in my underwear, or at least "oops" accidentally walk into the room once or twice fresh from MY shower in my jeans and just a bra, OH OOPS, I totally forgot I had visitors! Giggle - blush - oh, so embarrassed. QUICK PECK FOR FIANCE and out of the room, all modesty.

 

But maybe I'm just a bitch.

 

And I WOULD NOT stay home when "they" go out. I would not hang on to the fiance, I would not give long looks or EVER look worried for one single second, I would be THE FUN OF THE PARTY and yes, even flirt - not just with the fiance, and toss an arm across his shoulders companionably once in a while while laughing at all the fun and good times.

 

SHE should be the one made to feel uncomfortable.

 

And you know what? And I know this is not what you want to hear. But if I'm wrong, and something does happen between them, and she "gets" them...then she's getting a man who will easily be led astray and away and guess what...she's next. Because if he'd do it to you...he'd do it to her.

 

I am so sorry but damn I am mad on your behalf.

Edited by WildAutumn
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Oh, and as for her leaving her smelly muffin floss in your sink? I'd pick it up with the end of a chopstick, walk to the garbage can and throw both it and the chopstick into the garbage.

 

She can't take care of her things? Well then you can't worry about what happens to them.

 

If she dared to bring it up, which would put her at an immediate disadvantage because she'd be clearly remembering it, hence revealing that it could not have been a "whoopsie, my mistake!", I'd play dumb. "I don't know...maybe check your suitcase again...that doesn't ring a bell." "Friendly" smile. (Hey, she wants to be friends, right? Excuse me while I go throw up.)

 

If she doesn't want to keep wasting her money leaving her pricey crotch-rot around your house, she won't leave it lying around any more. Simple, really.

 

But even deeper than all this is...and I hope I am not out of line here...if you have to fight women whom your fiance may well be subtly encouraging because the attention feels good, and have to work around game-playing and even play a few of your own, already...well...this is just me. Please know this is just me.

 

But I'd be out the door.

 

He wants it? He can have it. Here you go, ex-fiance: a crotch-rot-dropping manipulative family-ripping desperate brand-new girl!!! Enjoy every minute of her...until, now that you do have her, ALL the reasons you didn't want to keep her in the first place come back up. But by then you'll be alone because you just casually let ME go...remember? Ah well, life sucks and lessons are hard...aren't they.

 

Sorry, sorry, sorry, God I sound like an awful person. So sorry but I have been reading and reading this thread and I didn't feel like I could hold back any more.

Edited by WildAutumn
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